My wife Zsuzsanna and I discussed last night how many comment pieces from Zionists lauding the BBC's decision not to screen the Gaza appeal would be published in Monday's daily newspapers. We both agreed that it was long odds-on that The Times would publish such a piece and both agreed that Janet Daley would use her Monday column in the Daily Telegraph to argue that the BBC was right. And we both thought it was the biggest certainty of all time that Melanie Phillips would do likewise in her Daily Mail column.
And lo and behold, what do we have.
In the Daily Telegraph, Daley writes:
I am inclined to support the BBC's position, and that is not (as the anti-Zionist lobby will claim) because I am Jewish and generally, but not uncritically, pro-Israel
In the Daily Mail, veteran BBC-basher Melanie Phillips says:
"I personally believe that on this occasion the BBC has made the correct decision".
And in the most outrageous offering of all, in The Times (where else?), neocon historian Andrew Roberts pens a column entitled "The charities are guilty not the BBC".
"The Corporation is right not to run the Gaza appeal. Oxfam and others are clearly anti-Israeli."
In my post on Saturday, I talked of Britain’s "numerically small, but influential Zionist lobby" Paul D, a Zionist commenter on this blog, asked me what I was talking about. Well, Paul, try reading the odd newspaper and you’ll see what I mean.
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82 comments:
You are right. I do hope that you will give generously to the Gaza appeal.
You fail to mention that Joan Bakewell has a thoughtful piece in "The Times" today, (26.01.09 ) deploring the stand of Mark Thompson and the BBC on aid for Gaza.
In this you are acting as you invariably do in presenting only one side of a case. With your high intelligence you would surely have risen higher in academe if your writing and speaking had had more balance.The fact that "The Times" in its third leader discounts the BBC argument and states that a BBC TV appeal should be broadcast is also omitted by you. Thus the "Times" articles are: 2 against the BBC position and 1 in favour.You do not mention this.
( You state that you favour the return of the death penalty. Barry George was convicted of the murder of Jill Dando, the TV presenter. After 8 years in prison we obtained a retrial. The forensic evidence was found to be highly flawed and he was released.If we had capital punishment he would probably have been executed after his original conviction. c.f.Timothy Evans of 10, Rillington Place.)
As you will know, there have been anti-semitic slogans chanted on the anti-Israel marches. There have also been pro-terrorist banners and slogans.
Neil, do you condemn these?
However the massive publicity the BBC is giving to its own "censorahip" suggests something else. Namely that, having spent the last few weeks pushing Hamas propaganda stories, some of which were clearly untrue & many for which no evidence is available the BBC is now using their supposed censorship to "prove" they are not supporting Hamas.
When they decided not to do an appeal for the Serbs of Krajina Holocaust, or of of Sarajevo or of those we "cleansed" from Kosovo they did not feel the need to go on every "news" broadcast saying they were going to broadcast it. It is sort of inherent in censorship that you don't broadcast it.
BBC Scotland Radio broadcast a phone in today on whether the BBC were right not to broadcast it. I rang in offering to speak & was told (by name, my phone no is clearly on their list) they would try to get me on but infortunately the programme was so full of people attacking "the Jews" & a lesser number saying the BBC had acted wisely that there was no time to broadcast any less supportive views.
Hi Geoffrey, The Times has taken, in its editorial line a strong pro-Zionist position. Daniel Finkelstein, the chief leader writer is a strong supporter of the state of Israel and if you look at the comment pages over the past few years you will see that pro-Zionist pieces outnumber anti-Zionist pieces by a very long way.
geordie paul: have there? On the march I went on in London i heard no anti-semitic chants. Plenty of anti-Israel chants, but that is not the same thing.
as for pro-terrorist banners and slogans- i think you're wrong again- i saw no banners supporting the child murderers of the IDF.
I condemn anti-semitism and all forms of racism, including Jewish racism towards non-Jews and I also condemn all forms of terrorism, including Israeli terrrorism, which in the last five weeks has killled over 1,300 people.
re The Times, Geoffrey, your comment would have had more 'balance' if you had mentioned their hawkish, neocon leader on Iran:
"If Iran were interested only in a civil programme for producing nuclear energy, there would be no problem. But no Western government or reputable independent agency believes, or ought to make a presumption, that Iran's nuclear programme is intended purely for generating electricity".
This is not the first time, The Times has published such scaremongering nonsense re Iran- the same people who got us into war with Iraq are doing their hardest to stoke up tensions with Iran.
The BBC is run in the interests of Zionists. Andy Burnham our Culture minister is partial to the Labour Friends of Israel lobby. They kindly paid for his tour of Israel.
Sky news of course, run by Murdoch, is unsurprisingly not interested in broadcasting the Gaza aid appeal.
Gordon Brown, Tony Blair, Jack Straw and many others in government have curried favour with the Labour Friends of Israel lobby. Brown himself has spoke there thrice and passionately pledged his support for zionism. Afterall his dear father took him there numerous times in his admiration for the Zionist struggle.
The big donors to Labour Friends of Israel and to the Labour Party are also zionists such as Michael Levy, Lord Sainsbury, Sir Trevor Chinn, Sir Emmanuel Kaye and so on.
Good luck to Palestine and the non-Western world in their fight to bring the zionists to heel.
If expressing a view against killing children in Gaza is a disguised anti Semitism, where do we put attacks on Jews who demonstrated against Israeli crimes ?????????
http://tinyurl.com/7bqevf
Also, anyone participated in a demonstraiton will know all banners are prepared by organizers (Anti-war, respect, Socialists,...etc, to call all these anti semitists is pathetic.
Woman faces down armed Israeli soldiers. A short video clip shown on S.Korean News-TV. This should shame BBC, Sky News. Why wasn't this shown on British televised news.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21676.htm
I love the perverse logic of the likes of Geordie Paul. Let's accept for a moment that at big demos there will sections with which one doesn't share opinions or politics.
So let's accept that at some of these demos there one or two anti-Semitic slurs (which of course the vast majority condemn) and let's accept - for the sake of this argument - further that a small section exhibited pro-Hamas posters, t-shirts, whatever (which again most people there don't).
Let's accept further that bitch called democracy, namely that the Palestinians in Gaza voted for Hamas at the last election (irrelevant whether or not you, me, or whoever likes it).
According to Geordie Paul, as a consequence of this (especially - it seems - because of the banners at a demo in a country far far away from Gaza; namely the UK), the civilians affected by the latest war now do not deserve humanitarian aid. In other words, because of the abovementioned circumstances, these people not only do not deserve help (because someone wears a Hamas t-shirt at a demo in another country), but in fact they implicitly deserve to die.
Similarly, some US Christians believed that the victims of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans didn't deserve help, because they were 'fornicators' and homosexuals.
Of course what underlies all of this is racism. People with dark skin deserve less help, that's the implication.
note:
'I am inclined to support the BBC's position, and that is not (as the anti-Zionist lobby will claim) because I am Jewish and generally, but not uncritically, pro-Israel'
The caveat....the 'not uncritically, pro-israel'...is a feeble attempt to disguise her rabid pro-isreal position, which her rejection of aid to Gaza shows
Brian
geordie Paul, shows his support of israel by ignoring the massive antisemitism in the 1300 dead gazans and support for rejecting the Gaza appeal.
All he can see is some people hate zionist jews...These days who can love them!
Brian
'Is the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) continuing to act as broadcasting arm of the Israeli government ?
Only days after sabotaging a national disaster appeal for Gaza, the BBC just published this "news" report :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 850085.stm ***The photo highlighted is a tank's gun***
Israeli PM in war crimes pledge
Any Israeli soldiers accused of war crimes in the Gaza Strip will be given state protection from prosecution overseas, the country's PM has said.
Ehud Olmert said troops should know Israel would keep them safe after they acted to protect their country.
The above statement would have come straight from the Israeli government .. and there is no attempt to question or balance the statement. What does "Israeli State Protection" mean if someone is charged in a European country ? Does it mean the Israeli army will mount an invasion and snatch operation ? Or are Israelis globally protected from prosecution world-wide by some secret "agreement" ?
Or is this an ultimate statement that Israeli government orders are the top law of the globe which all have to follow ?'
http://worldpressnetwork.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=736&p=5062#p5062
Brian
'Hi Geoffrey, The Times has taken, in its editorial line a strong pro-Zionist position. Daniel Finkelstein, the chief leader writer is a strong supporter of the state of Israel and if you look at the comment pages over the past few years you will see that pro-Zionist pieces outnumber anti-Zionist pieces by a very long way.'
======================
This is why its necessary to look at the journalists and editors and see just how objective the media they work for really are!
Brian
Is the BBC Israeli occupied territory ?
http://www.redress.cc/global/redress20090127
'However, the decision by the BBC’s director-general, Mark Thompson, not to broadcast the appeal should have come as no surprise. In fact, media observers have been witnessing a steady tilt by the corporation towards Israel since the turn of the millennium.
According to our sources, there are two fundamental reasons for this. The first is the need to boost advertising revenue for the debt-ridden BBC World News television channel, which cannot be seen in the UK. This channel relies heavily on advertisers from the United States who we understand have told the BBC in no uncertain terms that they would advertise with it only if the corporation changed its editorial line on the Arab-Israeli conflict in favour of Israel.
Related to this is the decision by the BBC to introduce advertising on its news website for users outside the UK, bbc.com. Although this had been in the planning since at least 2000, it was introduced only in November 2007. However, we understand that throughout this period BBC executives argued that the corporation must make further changes to its coverage of the Arab-Israeli conflict in order to insure that it is on the right side of US advertisers when bbc.com goes commercial.
Thus came the first of a couple of humiliating concessions to Israel by the BBC. In November 2003, the then director of the BBC World Service, Mark Byford, paid a visit to Israel which culminated in “a joint declaration on a commitment to objective coverage of Middle East events” and the appointment by the corporation of a special adviser on Middle East affairs, Mark Balen, to insure that Israel’s viewpoint was always represented, if not given primacy, in news and current affairs coverage. In return, and to save the BBC’s face, Israel agreed to lift a boycott it had instituted after the corporation screened the programme "Israel's Secret Weapon," about Israel's un-inspected nuclear, biological and chemical weapons capabilities.
Before leaving Israel, Mr Byford assured his new Zionist friends that this was not a one-off concession by the BBC. "We will maintain an ongoing dialogue, at senior levels, with all the sides, including the Israeli government, with regard to our coverage," he told his hosts.
Two years later, in November 2005, the director-general of the BBC, Mark Thompson, visited Israel where he held a face-to-face meeting with its then prime minister, Ariel Sharon. According to Guy Adams of the Independent,
Although the diplomatic visit was not publicised [in the UK], it has been seized upon in Israel as evidence that Thompson, who took office in 2004, intends to build bridges with the country's political class.
Sources at the Beeb also suspect that it heralds a "softening" to the corporation's unofficial editorial line on the Middle East.
"This was the first visit of its kind by any serving director general, so it's clearly a significant development," I'm told'
Matt.
Olching, Geordie Paul said nothing whatsoever about aid.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090126.wisrael26/BNStory/International/home
"There's just one thing you have to remember about our platform," he said, "just one thing to tell your friends: 'No loyalty, no citizenship.' "
If only this was an American politician saying this to an AIPAC crowd.
Coll
The point Olching is that the vast majority do not condemn these Nazis. The vast majority, perhaps quietly, go along with them - whicjh is all it takes. This must be quite obvious from the refusal of anti-Israeli commenters here to do so.
It is quite obvious that nobody anto-Israeli here has been willing to suitably condemn Dan for his racist lies.
Can anybody name a single member of the "anti-Zionist" movement who, in condemning Israel accidentally killing some bystanders in a defencive war has been 1,000 times louder in condemning their own Nazi leaders Livingston & Short for deliberatley killing thousands in a purely aggressive war. Anyone, or any movement, which declines to do so is clearly far more heavily motivated by racism & Nazism than any humanitarian claims
http://petras.lahaine.org/articulo.php?p=1770&more=1&c=1
Overseas Allies: The Presidents of the Major American Jewish Organizations (PMAJO)
"From the moment that the Israeli Government decided it would destroy the newly elected Hamas government and punish the democratic electorate of Gaza with starvation and murder, the entire Zionist Power Configuration (ZPC) in the US, including the PMAJO, pulled all stops in implementing the Israeli policy. The PMAJO encompasses the fifty-two Jewish organizations with the largest membership, with the greatest financial clout and the most influential backers. The most prominent lobbyist within the PMAJO is AIPAC, which has over 100,000 members and 150 full-time operatives in Washington actively pressuring the US Congress, the White House and all administrative agencies whose policies may relate to the interests of the State of Israel. However Israeli political extends far beyond its non-governmental agencies. Over two score legislators in the Congress and over a dozen senators are committed Zionists who automatically back Israel’s policies and push for US funding and armaments for its military machine. Top officials in key administrative positions, in Treasury, Commerce and the National Security Council, senior functionaries in the Pentagon and top advisers on Middle East affairs are also life-long, fanatically committed Zionists, who consistently and unreservedly back the policies of the State of Israel"
Hello, Geoffrey Hinton
DEC - more than £600,000 has already been raised before the appeal by "indendent" broadcasters even went out. In no small way, thanks to people like Neil Clark, braving the smear merchants whose raison d'etre is to destroy reputations and careers of all dissenters.
Nicki
Money and ideology behind BBC’s decision not to broadcast Gaza humanitarian appeal
By a special correspondent
27 January 2009
The BBC’s refusal to broadcast a humanitarian appeal for Gaza on behalf of a group of charities is motivated by a desire to appease US advertisers for its commercial TV channel and website, and by Mark Thompson’s own political proclivities.
Many people have been shocked and bewildered by the BBC’s refusal to broadcast a national humanitarian appeal for Gaza on behalf of the Disasters Emergency Committee (DEC), an umbrella organization for 13 humanitarian aid agencies.
However, the decision by the BBC’s director-general, Mark Thompson, not to broadcast the appeal should have come as no surprise. In fact, media observers have been witnessing a steady tilt by the corporation towards Israel since the turn of the millennium.
According to our sources, there are two fundamental reasons for this. The first is the need to boost advertising revenue for the debt-ridden BBC World News television channel, which cannot be seen in the UK. This channel relies heavily on advertisers from the United States who we understand have told the BBC in no uncertain terms that they would advertise with it only if the corporation changed its editorial line on the Arab-Israeli conflict in favour of Israel.
Related to this is the decision by the BBC to introduce advertising on its news website for users outside the UK, bbc.com. Although this had been in the planning since at least 2000, it was introduced only in November 2007. However, we understand that throughout this period BBC executives argued that the corporation must make further changes to its coverage of the Arab-Israeli conflict in order to insure that it is on the right side of US advertisers when bbc.com goes commercial.
Thus came the first of a couple of humiliating concessions to Israel by the BBC. In November 2003, the then director of the BBC World Service, Mark Byford, paid a visit to Israel which culminated in “a joint declaration on a commitment to objective coverage of Middle East events” and the appointment by the corporation of a special adviser on Middle East affairs, Mark Balen, to insure that Israel’s viewpoint was always represented, if not given primacy, in news and current affairs coverage. In return, and to save the BBC’s face, Israel agreed to lift a boycott it had instituted after the corporation screened the programme "Israel's Secret Weapon," about Israel's un-inspected nuclear, biological and chemical weapons capabilities.
Before leaving Israel, Mr Byford assured his new Zionist friends that this was not a one-off concession by the BBC. "We will maintain an ongoing dialogue, at senior levels, with all the sides, including the Israeli government, with regard to our coverage," he told his hosts.
Two years later, in November 2005, the director-general of the BBC, Mark Thompson, visited Israel where he held a face-to-face meeting with its then prime minister, Ariel Sharon. According to Guy Adams of the Independent,
Although the diplomatic visit was not publicised [in the UK], it has been seized upon in Israel as evidence that Thompson, who took office in 2004, intends to build bridges with the country's political class.
Sources at the Beeb also suspect that it heralds a "softening" to the corporation's unofficial editorial line on the Middle East.
"This was the first visit of its kind by any serving director general, so it's clearly a significant development," I'm told.
So, it was not without reason that British Health Minister Ben Bradshaw – of all people – urged the BBC to stand up to the Israeli authorities occasionally" and to broadcast the charities’ appeal for Gaza.
Nor was it fantasy on the part of Tony Benn when he said:
I never thought I would live to see [the BBC] refuse to broadcast a humanitarian appeal on the grounds that it was controversial. I know why it is – because [Tzipi] Livni, the Israeli foreign minister, has said there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
But what kind of management would sell the soul of an internationally-respected broadcaster such as the BBC for the sake of a few advertising pennies?
This brings us to the second fundamental reason for the BBC's tilt towards Israel. That is perhaps where Mark Thompson’s ideology – or bias – comes in. According to a BBC insider quoted in the Independent, "Not many people know this, but Mark [Thompson] is actually a deeply religious man. He's a Catholic, but his wife is Jewish, and he has a far greater regard for the Israeli cause than some of his predecessors."
There you have it!
But where does this leave the BBC? Mr Thompson’s refusal to let the BBC air a non-political, humanitarian appeal by a group of charities on behalf of the destitute of Gaza has profoundly, and probably irreversibly, damaged the reputation and integrity of the BBC. Furthermore, by placing the BBC firmly on the side of Israel and its lobbyists in Britain and the US, Mr Thompson has made the BBC and its staff a target for reprisals against Israel’s atrocities in Gaza.
This is particularly bad news for the BBC World Service’s two flagship television channels, BBC Arabic and BBC Persian – the first struggling for a place in the crowded Arab satellite broadcasting environment and the second already facing accusations by the Iranian authorities that it is an agent for subversion.
A self-respecting director-general would resign. But what self-respecting director-general would put a great British institution in this position in the first place?
http://www.redress.cc/global/redress20090127
The fact that people still use the term 'zionist' unironically cracks me up! It makes me think of skinhead white supremacists or angry Muslim teens sitting in a dingy flat above a chip shop discussing the 'Jewish conspiracy to enslave the world.'
Neil (Craig), I love this. "No one". I suspect my comments - for instance - or those of Neil (Clark) don't count.
Secondly, is the issue of a semi-anonymous blogger leaving messages more important than the humanitarian issue that the people of Gaza are facing at the moment? Really? You think because 'Dan, Portsmouth' leaves message that you don't like, it is therefore clear that there is some conspiracy and the Gazans should suffer as a result?
Put your money where your mouth is and have a go at 'Dan, Portsmouth' and donate money to those suffering in Gaza. If you see 'Dan Portsmouth' linked to the real suffering of Gazans, you may need to step back a little.
Neil craig carries water for israel again:
'Can anybody name a single member of the "anti-Zionist" movement who, in condemning Israel accidentally killing some bystanders in a defencive war has been 1,000 times louder' '
Accidentally? Not when you herd them into buildings then shell the buildings...Not when you thank the UN for their bldng coordinate band promptely bomb them.
It was no 'defensive war' not when the enemy has so little in the way of weapons. But then the Palestinians cant get the US to arm them.
Israel planned this'defensive war months before, and deliberately broke the cease fire to provide a casus belli.
You keep showing how despicable/desperate you are by serving as PR flack for the murderous Israeli army.
Brian
Great stuff Matt - I assume you wrote the last post too. I don't know where else one could read that info. Nicki too - James Petras should be read by everyone, his books and his website. Petras is one of very few 'on the left' who doesn't feel obliged to pretend that the various US Israeli lobbies are comprised of Christian evangelicals.
Neil Craig - you're a great turn, as always.
Roland Hulme said:
"The fact that people still use the term 'zionist' unironically cracks me up! It makes me think of skinhead white supremacists or angry Muslim teens sitting in a dingy flat above a chip shop discussing the 'Jewish conspiracy to enslave the world.'"
-----
Israeli thugs have brutally murdered hundreds of innocent civilians in Gaza - that is a fact. But Roland Hulme thinks anyone who describes these fascist criminals as 'zionists' is a "skinhead white supremacist"...?
How utterly bizarre!
This seems to be some kind of variation of the increasingly desperate 'holocaust card' - ie Israelis have a special right to maim and murder Arabs, and anyone who doesn't like it must be...uh, honest guv...an anti-Semite.
Well, we're all used to hearing this pathetic line from cranks like Neil Craig. But it's quite disappointing coming from Roland Hulme. :-(
I think I have fairly succesfully "had a go" at Dan leading him to confirm, deny & then confirm again his "the Jews killed Jesus" obscenity & leading him to call for anybody telling the truth here to be banned.
I have no intention of donating to Hamas & don't see why this alone would legitimise my right to an opinion. I have suggested a solution to the Gaza problem which would be very much in the interests of ordinary Gazans but which will not be adopted because those more motivated by hatred for Jews will oppose it. http://a-place-to-stand.blogspot.com/2009/01/gaza-when-in-hole.html As somebody else put it Gaza is a vast sink estate with no employment & nothing to do but vandalism & fighting over who gets to be community organiser & control western hand outs.
Hello Neil,
My name is Amir and I am an Israeli. I live in the USA for over 7 years, partly because of my conviction of the destructive and irrational acts of the Israeli government. However, I would like to say that there are many individuals in Israel who are aware to it and tend to share similar value jusgment with me. I participate in an online forum, which discusses morals and ethics. In one of these discussions, the topic was what the late march of Israeli forces and the massive killing of civilians does to the Israeli society. As a great advocate of Erich Fromm, whom I read non-stop "Man for Himself," "Escape from Freedom," "The Sane Society," "Beyond the Chains of Illusion," "The Art of Loving" and "The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness." I am confident that Erich Fromm is one of greatest thinkers of our times and his sharp and keen observation cannot be more relevant 28 years after he died. Below is what I wrote to the forum. It is a quote from The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness.
The Babylonian myth tells about the victorious rebellion of the male gods against Tiamat, the “Great Mother” who ruled the universe. They form an alliance against her and choose Marduk to be their leader. After a bitter war Tiamat is slain, from her body heaven and earth are formed, and Marduk rules as supreme God. However, before he is chosen to be the leader, Marduk has to pass a test, which may seem insignificant - or puzzling to modern man, but is the key to understand the myth.
They test Marduk’s ability by the word of his mouth to destroy a garment; by commanded again, the garment will be restored to a whole.
The meaning of this test is to show that man has overcome his inability for natural creation – a quality which only the soil and the female had – by a new form of creation, that by the word (thought). Marduk, who can create in this way, has overcome the natural superiority of the mother and hence can replace her. The biblical story begins where the Babylonian myth ends: the male god creates the world by the word. (E. Fromm 1951)
Contrary to the primitive life of the gatherers & hunters groups and later on, man of the Neolithic period, a significant feature of the new urban society is that it is based on the principle of patriarchal rule, in which the principle of control is inherent: control of nature, control of slaves, women and children. The new patriarchal man literally “makes” the earth. His technique is not simply modification of the natural processes, but their domination and control by man, resulting in new products which are not found in nature. Men themselves came under the control of those who organized the work of the community, and hence the leaders had to have power over those they controlled. In order to achieve the aims of this new society, everything, nature and man, had to be controlled and had to either exercise – or fear – power. In order to become controllable, men had to learn to obey and to submit, and in order to submit they had to believe in the superior power – physical and/or magic of their rulers. While in the Neolithic village, as well as among primitive hunters, leaders guided and counseled the people and did not exploit them, and while their leadership was accepted voluntarily or, to use another term, while prehistoric authority was “rational” authority resting on competence, the authority of the new patriarchal system was one based on force and power; it was exploitative and mediated by the physical mechanism of fear, “awe,” and submission. It was “irrational authority.” To exert power in every form was the essence of the new patriarchal civilization; the city found a score of ways of expressing struggle, aggression, domination, conquest – and servitude. Psychoanalytic experiences convince that the essence of sadism is the passion for unlimited, godlike control over man and things. In addition to sadism, the passion to destroy life and the attraction to all that is dead (Necrophilia) seem to develop in the new urban civilization. Each historic civilization begins with a living, urban core, the polis, and ends in a common graveyard of dust and bones, a Necropolis, or city of the dead: fire-scorched ruins, shattered buildings, empty workshops, heaps of meaningless refuse, the population massacred or driven into slavery. (L Mumford, 1961.) Whether we read the story of the Hebrews’ conquest of Canann or the story of Babylonians’ wars, the same spirit of unlimited and inhuman destructiveness is shown. The history of civilization, from the destruction of Carthage and Jerusalem to the destruction of Dresden, Hiroshima, and the people, soil and trees of Vietnam, is a tragic record of sadism and destructiveness. (E. F. The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness.) The government of the state of Israel is sadistic and uses irrational authority to produce devastation. It will destroy itself by the inhuman acts of its people, all that will be left are ruins, dust and bones – unless a radical change of society will emerge. Amir
Please respond to bmamir@gmail.com
I was at the Trafalger Square rally last Saturday. The biggest cheer that went up, especially by the Pakistanis near me, was in agreement with the praise of the many Jews who have spoken out and organised against the massacres in Gaza.
In Oxford We have had Jewish as well as Palestinian speakers at our rallies (because of their excellent cotributions), and many of those who have worked hard organising for Palestine happen to be Jewish. This should not matter - it is an insult to the integrity and intelligence of any to talk of antisemitism. In truth the best way to oppose antisemitism (whether anti Jewish or anti Arab racism) is to tell the truth and shame the Zionists.We work together. The next step is to organise a boycott of the Israeli terrorist state and to bring the Zionist War Criminals to Justice.
I was at the rally in Trafalger Square last Saturday. It was noticeable that the biggest cheer, especially from the Pakistanis near me, was for those many Jews who had spoken out and organised against the Massacres in Gaza.
In oxford we have had Jews as well as Palestinians as speakers at our rallies (for the excellency of their contributions) and many of those working hard in organising protests happen to be Jewish. This should not matter - it is a real insult to all of us to try to smear us with the term antisemitism. In truth the best way to bury all antisemitism (whether anti Jewish or anti Arab racism) is to tell the truth and shame Zionism. Anti racists must work together - in Israel too. The next step must be organised boycott of the terrorist Israeli state and the bringing of the Zionist war criminals to judgement.
neil craig:
'I have suggested a solution to the Gaza problem which would be very much in the interests of ordinary Gazans but which will not be adopted because those more motivated by hatred for Jews will oppose it. '
Someone tell Neil Craig, that cagging and then bombing defencelss people is no way to win friends!
Brian
Olching;
Thank you for instigating more lies about me and more hate/ degrading speech against palestinians in Gaza
I don't blame Craig, he is being himself, a crock of sh**
Amir your beef clearly isn't with Israel but with the human race. Your crititicism is equally applicable to any nation anywhere over at least the last 6,000 years. Like many PC enemies of Israel your real objection to them is their success. You have no word of criticism for Hamas not because they haven't quite obviously been engaged in "destructiveness" & using "irrational authority to produce devastation", but merely because they have failed their people.
David the contradiction between you saying that nobody in your movement is anti-Semitic & warning Jews that they had better sign up to prevent anti-Semitism growing should be obvious. In any case you don'teven atempt to answer any of the questions about how it is possible for you to be supportive of real crimes by Nazis while picking on Jews without being anto-Semitic. Was there a single person in that entire crowd who publicly said that Short & Livingston were pro-Nazi war criminals on a far worse scale than any Israeli can be accused of? If not there was not a single person there not showing prejudice.
I don't believe for a moment that all those who bash Israel are anti-semites.
Hey, Ken - I just think 'Zionists' is a long dead term. It harks back to the Victorian era. Defend or attack them, either way, the conflict at the moment is between Isaelis and Arabs. Labeling them and all who support them as 'Zionists' sounds old fashioned and Citizen 'Wolfy' Smith-like.
Silly jargon undermines the argument!
a picture showing Israels 'precision bombing':
http://www.uruknet.info/pic.php?f=lacrimechehannovisto.jpg
Brian
'I have suggested a solution to the Gaza problem which would be very much in the interests of ordinary Gazans but which will not be adopted because those more motivated by hatred for Jews will oppose it'
A solution to the Gaza problem...that has all the ringtone of a nazi 'final solution' suggestion!
After the blitzkrieg against gaza, who can possible like 'the jews'? Jews everywhere should denounce the zionist murderers.
its interesting how Neil Craig continues to defend them, but what can one expect from a muddled conservative.
Your concern for ordinary Gazans is zero, Neil Craig...
Brian
'I have suggested a solution to the Gaza problem which would be very much in the interests of ordinary Gazans but which will not be adopted because those more motivated by hatred for Jews will oppose it'
After the blitzkrieg against gaza, who can possible like 'the jews'? Jews everywhere should denounce the zionist murderers.
its interesting how Neil Craig continues to defend them, but what can one expect from a muddled conservative.
Your concern for ordinary Gazans is zero, Neil Craig...
Brian
Brian who makes up for in repitition what he lacks in intelligence clearly does not possess 1/1000th as much genuine concern for the people of Gaza as I have shown. He merely finds them useful human weapons in his war against Jews. Unfortunately this is the common coin of western anti-Israelis.
His & the rest of the movement's absolute refusal, shown here, to even discuss any solution not predicated on the genocide of Jews proves it.
Neil Craig:
'Like many PC enemies of Israel your real objection to them is their success'
AH yes, and how did Israel become a 'success': how was it founded:
'A Brief History of Israeli Terror Killings Since 1946
Gaza is full-scale war but just the latest bloodstained episode in Israel's six-decade reign of terror against Palestinians. This section reviews others since 1946, two years before the establishment of a Jewish state. The list is long, way-incomplete, very disturbing, and shows what Palestinians have endured for over 60 years. Their ordeal continues in the West Bank and Gaza under siege, still attacked, and, as always, betrayed by the dominant media.
The King David Hotel July 22, 1946 Bombing
The Menachem Begin-led Irgun planned and conducted the massacre of 92 Brits, Arabs and Jews, wounding 58 others. As head of the Jewish Agency, David Ben-Gurion approved the operation. It was to destroy British-gathered evidence that its leaders colluded with the Haganah, Palmach, Irgun and Stern gangs in a wave of terrorist crimes and killings. Bombing the King David Hotel was the most notorious and followed a pattern before and since of brutal Israeli state terrorism.
The British Secretariat of the Palestine Government and British Army HQ kept offices in the hotel. Attackers disguised as milkmen, planted explosives in milk containers, placed them in the basement and left. At the time, the action shocked the civilized world and outraged the British leadership and House of Commons.
Other Israeli Terrorist Incidents against Palestinians
-- Tira, December 11, 1947 - five Palestinians were killed and six injured;
-- a village outside Haifa, December 12, 1947 - 12 Palestinians killed;
-- a village outside Tel Aviv, December 14, 1947 - 18 Palestinians killed and 100 injured;
-- al-Khias, December 18, 1947 - the paramilitary Haganah killed 10 Palestinians, most inside their homes;
-- Haifa, December 30, 1947 - six Palestinians killed and 42 wounded;
-- Jerusalem, December 30, 1947 - Irgun terrorists threw a bomb from a speeding car killing 11 Palestinians and two Brits;
-- Balad Esh-Sheikh, December 31, 1947 - the Haganah killed 60 Palestinians, most inside their homes;
-- Jaffa, January 4, 1948 - the Stern Gang killed up to 30 and wounded 100 in a truck bombing;
-- the Semiramis Hotel, Jerusalem, January 4, 1948 - the Haganah bombed the hotel killing 25 civilians;
-- Jaffa Gate, Jerusalem, January 7, 1948 - 17 Palestinians killed;
-- Tireh, February 10, 1948 - seven Palestinians killed and five injured;
-- on a bus from Safad, February 12, 1948 - five Palestinians killed and five injured;
-- Sa'sa', February 14, 1948 - 60 Palestinians killed, mostly in their homes;
-- Qisarya, February 15 - 20, 1948 - 25 Palestinians killed;
-- Haifa, February 20, 1948 - six Palestinians killed and 36 wounded;
-- Haifa, March 3, 1948 - the Stern Gang blew up the Salameh Building killing 11 Palestinians and wounding 27;
-- al-Husayniyya, March 12 and 16 - 17 - the Palmach twice raided the village killing 15 and wounding 20 in the first attack; killing 30 in the second one;
-- Jews blew up a train near Benjamina on March 31, 1948 killing 25 Palestinians and wounding 61;
-- al-Sarafand, April 5, 1948 - 16 Palestinians were killed and 12 wounded, most when a house was mortared;
-- Dier Yassin, April 9, 1948 - the Menachem Begin-led Irgun slaughtered well over 120 Palestinian men, women and children in a bloody rampage; The New York Times reported 254 killed on April 13; 53 orphaned children were dumped like trash along the wall of the Old City; homes were dynamited with inhabitants inside; people were shot at close range, including children; the massacre marked the beginning of what followed during Israel's "War of Independence:" depopulating 531 towns and villages; 11 urban neighborhoods; massacring or displacing 800,000 Palestinians; and committing countless rapes and other atrocities;" remember Dier Yassin; it, too, is immortalized;
-- Tel Litvinsky, April 19, 1948 - Jews killed 90 Palestinians;
-- Tiberias, April 19, 1948 - Jews blew up a home killing Palestinians inside;
-- Ayn al-Zaytun and nearby villages, May 1 - 4, 1948 - 27 Palestinians killed;
-- Acre, May 18, 1948 - Israeli troops killed over 100 Palestinians;
-- al-Kabri, May 20, 1948 - Israeli forces killed villagers and machine-gunned children who survived;
-- al-Tantura, May 22 - 23, 1948 - Israeli troops killed over 200 villagers, mostly unarmed young men shot in cold blood;
etc
http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2009/01/today-in-solidarity-were-all.html
If anyones politically correct, in a fawning way, its Neil Craig!
Brian
Neil Craig:
'You have no word of criticism for Hamas not because they haven't quite obviously been engaged in "destructiveness"'
they havent...Hamas has always observed the ceasefires, which israel has always broken. Hamas responds to israeli jewish violence. Israel wrecks destruction in order to terrorise the palestinian inhabitants into leaving. Thus creating a greater jewish state.
Brian
neil Craig:
'Brian who makes up for in repitition what he lacks in intelligence clearly does not possess 1/1000th as much genuine concern for the people of Gaza as I have shown'
Thats your most orwellian line so far, Neil...Your concern for the plight of the palestinians...When youve bent over backwards to defend their butchers.
'He merely finds them useful human weapons in his war against Jews'
Neil has learned from his zionazi masters the art of the Big Lie. Neil continues to defend the Israelis jewish genocide of the palestinians...or will he demand Israel pay for the damage it has caused the palestinians? No, he will blame that on the palestinians.
Brian
Neil Craig:
You can show your concern for th people of Gaza by demanding that Israel pay for the damage it caused.
Right? lets see whom you really care for.
Brian
'His & the rest of the movement's absolute refusal, shown here, to even discuss any solution not predicated on the genocide of Jews proves it'
Neill..genocide of the jews? Does that include jews NOT living in the jews only state? or are jews under threat everywhere?
Meanwhile, Gaza is now less 1300 citizens. For none of whom you show the slightest concern.
Brian
at first i thought it was satire:
'
Civilian Goes Where Press Can't to Speak to Israeli Soldiers
By Michael Fenenbock January 17 2009
Michael Fenenbock, veteran political consultant and founder of the18, made a lightning visit to the Gaza war zone yesterday to interact with IDF troops near the front.
Accompanied by senior security personnel, Fenenbock gained access to a zone beyond where reporters are permitted to enter, Fenebock’s most striking impression was that morale is extremely high at all levels of command and that the professionalism and commitment of the IDF are impressive.
What follows is Michael’s first-hand report from the front lines.
...
'The soldiers all express their thanks for our visit and for our efforts to prevent a Palestinian state.
“Are you getting everything you need?” we ask, remembering the dreadful reports from Israeli troops of shortages of supplies and food during the 2006 Second Lebanon War. This time, the answers all come back the same. ‘Absolutely, we have everything.’
etc
http://europenews.dk/en/node/18481
at least we know the israeli troops are fighting to prevent a palestinian state.
This site, which embeds itself, has as its motto:
'No tolerance for intolerance'
Brian
6 posts from Anonymous Brian & not a single point addressed.
I take it B that you have also denounced the existence of England because of numerous killings going back to Hengist & his horse. No - well I guess they must just have been Aryans you obscene Nazi.
One post from Neil Craig, and no points addressed...Maybe Neil is wavering in his loyalty to the apartheid 'state' of Israel?
AS we know, he has zero concern for the palestinians, yet using the standard zionist technique of Bull he makes out that he does! So he fails to address my criticism of his faux concern.
Brian
Neil Craig: are you aware that the zioist entity established itself using terrorism? And maintains itself using the same techniques. (See my posts or proof).
Yes or no?
If Yes, why do you continue to defend it?
Brian
So not a single anti-Jewish reader here is willing to condemn Brian for remarks which, by the ethical standards he maintains, prove him & anti anti-Jew comfortable with such obscenities to be a wholly corrupt, child raping, Nazi personally involved in racial genocide. This is undeniable.
Equally David Hillman has failed to come up with a single anti-Jewish demonstrator who has not wholly supported the Nazism of the movement's leaders.
Now you Nazi child rapist I am aware AS YOU ARE that every state maintains itself by forece. The only difference between us is that I believe the same rules apply to all states whereas you believe Aryan states are entitled to commit genocide whereas Jewish & slavic ones are only entitled to be the victims of genocide.
Neil is it apppropriate for you to allow absolutely any Nazi to insult other commenters & repe4atedly lie. As you know I have never said anything whatsoever insulting or unproven about obscene lying child raping genocidal Nazis like Brian yet he has been allowed to lie about me in the most disgusting terms repeatedly.
And he still hasn't answered my questions.
Brian;
Neil craig is a lier for Israel.
He lied and said Israel didn't use phosporus bombs for example.
What exactly you are exchanging with this shameful lier?
Facts VS Craig's lies?
Intellegent argument vs his zionist filth?
Ignore him mate.
'So not a single anti-Jewish reader here is willing to condemn Brian for remarks which, by the ethical standards he maintains, prove him & anti anti-Jew comfortable with such obscenities to be a wholly corrupt, child raping, Nazi personally involved in racial genocide. This is undeniable'
tell me Neil: are you jewish? or just a gentile zionist?
the obscenity is where Israel shoves palestinians into a building then shells it...an atrocity youve been very quiet about.
'Equally David Hillman has failed to come up with a single anti-Jewish demonstrator who has not wholly supported the Nazism of the movement's leaders'
The nazism..aka rcae purification...can be best seen in the the new 'jewish state'.
'Now you Nazi child rapist I am aware AS YOU ARE that every state maintains itself by forece'
Israel is not a 'state'...and why are youre using the old excuse: everyone does it, why not Israel?
'whereas you believe Aryan states are entitled to commit genocide whereas Jewish & slavic ones are only entitled to be the victims of genocide. '
why are you yoking slavic states (u mean serbia) with the jewish one? Esp as Serbia was formed out of the asheds of Yugoslavia by the US and europe, while The jewish state was created by the Israeli jews aided by th US and europe.
AND you keep up with the false idea that jews are always victims, while they are engaged in genocide.
Brian
'What exactly you are exchanging with this shameful lier?'
Because he is a shameless liar...and needs to be exposed.
Brian
'Neil is it apppropriate for you to allow absolutely any Nazi to insult other commenters & repe4atedly lie'
what this means is Neil Craig wants to censor this site.
This is NOT the BBC or NYT Neil.
Brian
Merely because Dan can't spell liar doesn't stop him being a typical anti-Israeli pro-Nazi ome. This is why every single anti-Israeli here who is in some way honest, has publicly disociated themselves from the obscne genocidal filth.
1) I did not say Israel never used phosphorous bombs.
2) Dan said & still maintains that the Istraelis were engaged in the genocide of all 1.5 millioin Gazans.
3) He blamed curently living Jews for the killing of Jesus.
Neil Clark I ask you to confirm that, as blogmaster, you do not accept the Nazi's obscene claim that all 1.5 million Gazans have been killed, nor that Jews currently alive bear any responibility for killing Jesus.
So Brian's whole anti-Semitic rant depends on claiming that "Israel is not a state". I accept that as representing the very highest standard of honesty which you & your racist friends are capable of. Well lets see your evidence for it you Nazi scum. Alternately lets see your evidence that anything you have said including the lie about them shelling the house (or indeed the racist lie about Jews sacrificing Christian children) is more than 10,000 times closer to honest than you, or any of the other anti-Jews on here is capable of.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7875171.stm
Carig;
You lied as usual and denied zionists use of phospuros bombs.
Your lie is comment 12:09 PM on the link below:
http://tinyurl.com/c74g76
Oh dear, just exposed yourself again as if we need more evidence of you being a Zionist Sh**
Neil Craig:
'Merely because Dan can't spell liar doesn't stop him being a typical anti-Israeli pro-Nazi ome.'
Cant spell 'one'!
'So Brian's whole anti-Semitic rant depends on claiming that "Israel is not a state". '
No Neil, it doesnt, and if you had any intellectual integrity (which you havent), youd not be making such a claim. Nor is it 'antisemitic; to criticise israel and cakll for its leadership to be tried for war crimes....like using phosphorus against Gazans, which you acknowledge Israels DID use.
'Alternately lets see your evidence that anything you have said including the lie about them shelling the house '
That incident made it into the news....and your denial (along with your genocide denial) is further proof of your lieing for israel.
Tell, me neil, and try to be honest for a change: are you jewish? If not why are you defending Israels war crimes?
Brian
Israel blocks humanitarian aid(again):
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1061631.html
'The army on Thursday said in a statement, "The actions of the boat crew raised suspicion, as it could threaten security concerns, or furthermore, the boat could be used for smuggling banned equipment [weaponry, etc.] in to or out of the Gaza Strip," the IDF said in a statement. '
Such an insecure entity! Is that because they recognise Israel's illegality!
Yes, humanitarian aid would look suspicious to Israel, which hasnt a humanitarian bone its its collective body.
'Qatar-based Al-Jazeera television quoted a correspondent aboard the vessel as saying the Israel Navy had fired shots then boarded the Tali and beaten passengers and crew.'
Israel teaches them a bloody good lesson! That any attempts to thwart the genocide of the palestinians will not be tolerated.
Israel deports journalists... Unless they work for AP:
http://www.counterpunch.org/weir07292008.html
'In addition, Israeli officials periodically strip search others whenever, it appears, they wish, including:
The British Consul General (Israeli media reported that her search was “prolonged, needless and humiliating” and that she was “visibly upset);
An American holocaust survivor (she was treated to a “cavity search”);
Sixteen Christian evangelicals rounded up at gunpoint;
Journalists from around the world (an Argentinian journalist wrote: “… they made me go to another office and strip naked. An official came in stands next to me, while I’m naked, with a machine gun in his hand…” A Swiss reporter was forced to remove her pants in public and stand in her underwear, hands raised, in front of an x-ray machine);
A wheel-chair bound New Jersey woman with cerebral palsy whose sanitary pad was confiscated, humiliating her publicly;
An American doctoral student, who was also subjected to a cavity search… and the list goes on and on.
Yet, somehow, AP missed all of these. In fact, amazingly, a LexisNexis search of Associated Press stories over the past 10 years, using the search terms “Israel” and “strip search,” turns up only one result – a few stories on a hunger strike by Palestinian prisoners protesting against, among other things, their daily strip searches by Israeli guards.'
Thats the sort of entity Neil Craig and the american congress (if not the american taxpayer) cant wait to support.
Brian
Abbas gets some balls:
'Abbas says Israel should pay for war crimes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Big News Network.com Thursday 5th February, 2009
Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has addressed the European Parliament, where he said Israeli officials should be held responsible for war crimes in the Palestinian territories.
Mr Abbas, on a tour of Europe to speak to governments about aid and reconstruction in Gaza, said Israel had committed war crimes during its offensive in Gaza.
He said those who made the decisions to bomb civilian areas should be held responsible
etc
http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/index.php?sid=462807
Israel broke it (gaza) israel should pay for its fixing.
Brian
why is US arming a madman?
'Chomsky was suggesting that Israeli leaders had actually +intended+ to kill large numbers of Palestinian civilians for reasons which, from their perspective, were entirely rational. In support of this claim, Chomsky quoted an article by the New York Times correspondent Ethan Bronner, ‘Parsing gains of Gaza War.’ Bronner argued that Israel calculated that it would be advantageous to appear to “go crazy,” by causing massive destruction:
“The Israeli theory of what it tried to do here is summed up in a Hebrew phrase heard across Israel and throughout the military in the past weeks: ‘baal habayit hishtageya,’ or ‘the boss has lost it.’ It evokes the image of a madman who cannot be controlled.'
http://www.medialens.org/alerts/index.php
Israels us of calculated rage, make them a vey dangerous group to arm. yet US congress readily hands over billions in arms.
Brian
OK Dan you obscene child raping lying Nazi whore (& fitting representative of the anti-Israel movement) you are caught lying again.
What I said was not that there was absolute certainty that Israel had never used phosphorous but that a previous statement that Israel "murder just as many Arab children as they like with their illegal white phosphorus bombs" was a lie. It was, as the fact that nobody who is not wholly corrupt, like you & your Nazi friends, still claims that Israel killed all 1.5 Gazans & half a million children.
Neil Clark can confirm that this is what i said. As such you owe me an apology you disgusting Nazi scum , particularly since I have never said anything about you & your pals which was not wholly true.
Craig is lying again.
Surprise surprise.
We had your lie in writing Craig, link is provided above, have some shame and admit it your filthy sh**!!!
Advice: synchronize the lies with your Zionist mates, in order not to expose each other, or you may try honesty for change.?
Israeli terrorist army asked a mother to choose 5 of her 10 children to be murdered.
I heard this story on the telly, then I find this eyewitness story about it.
http://mecaforpeace.blogspot.com/2009/01/in-gaza.html
Dr Rawya Al Borno, a jordanian Doctor in Gaza, told of a similar story.
Soldiers asked a mother to choose between one of her two children to be killed,
this woman had a nervous breakdown, and she is being treated by Dr Al-borno.
See how democratic israel is? they even give parents the choice to choose which of their children will be murdered??
You obscene child raping murdering Nazi animal Dan you know perfectly well, as does Neil Clark & anybody who followed the link that it was exactly as I said. That is why every single anti-Israeli who possesses any trace of integrity has come on here to say you are a liar.
As for your tale about the Jordanian - where is your evidence that it is at least 10,000 times closer to honest than anything else that spills from the Nazi lie factory you & your genocidal pals inhabit?
A) It does sound an extremely improbable tale &
B) We know for a fact that virtually nobody in the anti-Semitic movement has the remotest respect for the truth.
Craig;
A. we had your lie in writing here, stop making a joke of yourself. try to tell the truth once in your life.
B. The story is true, and the journalist who told it is a Canadian.
C. Jordanian Doctor told of a different story about one of her patients, which shows Zionist democracy in action.
No wonder you defend child murderers, since you are an animal of the same breed.
Come one, kneel in front of me and apologize for your lies.
be a good animal, come ooooon..
Your story is a lie & I have proven it repeatedly you obscene murdering Child raping Nazi.
You have produced absolutely no evidence that your other stories are 10,000 times more honest that you aspire to be. There is no law of physics of psychiatry that makes all Canadians infalible.
I note not a single anti_Israeli has come on here to dissociate themsleves from the child raping Nazi's lies. I trust nobody disputes that that shows virtually the entire anti-Israeli movement to be obscene lying genocidal Nazis like their leaders Livingston & Short.
Craig;
They kill, you lie for them.
The story is a true, factual, with witnesses on it, and we don't need the approval of a liar like yourself to know to what extent israeli terrorist army will go.
Keep denying it, like you denied the use of phosphorus bombs.
Now F off.
You lying animal.
If you or any of the other anti-Israelis here are in the slightest degree honest then Israel has already killed every last one of the 1.5 million Gazans, as has previously been asserted here.
Have you ANY evidence that anything you, or any of your compatriots have ever said is in the slightest degree more honest than that obscenr Nazi lie.
neil craig:
'I note not a single anti_Israeli has come on here to dissociate themsleves from the child raping Nazi's lies'
Notice how Neil likes to use the 'nazi' word, except in reference to the zionist 'state' of israel, which being a 'jewish state' now is pursuing a goal identical to nazi germanys aryan 'state'.
Neils language is getting more and more creatively colourful, as his shrill hysteria waxes.... whatever are the zionist jews paying him???
Brian
I also don't use the word Nazi in reference to the colour of banaas. I use it only in reference to things that can accurately be described as Nazi - hence its use in connection to you, Dan & the anti-Israeli movement generally.
If Israel's actions were indeed "identical" to Nazi Germany's or indeed merely "identical" to those of the NATO politicians, including most of the obscene scum running your movement, then they would have "cleansed" Gaza as your friends did to Krajina & Kosovo. The fact is that though you liars have said that is what they were doing you were merely lying that merely represents the highest standard of honesty to which you can aspire. By any objective standard the Israelis have shown thousands of times more respect for human rights than our own politicians & every single European opponent of them who is not a wholly obscene corrupt lying racist Nazi has publicly said so.
'If Israel's actions were indeed "identical" to Nazi Germany's or indeed merely "identical" to those of the NATO politicians, including most of the obscene scum running your movement, then they would have "cleansed" Gaza as your friends did to Krajina & Kosovo'
Not at all The Warsaw ghetto is the best parallel to whats taking place in gaza..
No need to keep up the pretence Neil, we all know you are a rabid zionist and supporter of genocide in Palestine.
Youre a lord Haw Haw:
'By any objective standard the Israelis have shown thousands of times more respect for human rights than our own politicians & every single European opponent '
An amazing bullsht statement...Neil. When no current european govt has waged war against a defenceless people who they imprisoned in a concentration camp.
Keep up the lies, Neil, and i will keep shooting them down.
Brian
Brian;
The words:
(Obscene, Nazi, child raping, Filth, whore)
are Craig's signature.
Ignore him, he don't worth spitting on, but spit on him anyway.
Neil should you really be giving space to an obscene Filthy child raping genocidal Nazi whore like Brian to deny the Holocaust by saying that all Hitler did in the Warsaw Ghetto was to try to stop the Jews there building rockets to fire at German towns, that they never starved or shipped people out to gas chambers & that they let the United Nations send as much aid to the Ghetto as they wanted.
You see the road you are going down when you start supporting these Nazis willing to tell absolutely any lie to support their obscene cause.
As for Dan I call on anybody on the anti-Zionist side who is not a wholly corrupt lying Nazi to denounce Dan's disgusting remak & confirm that i have NWVER said a single word about him which was not entirely proven to be true & thus not in the least degree insulting to that obscene scum.
Looking at the context in which the word human was used by Neil Craig;
See the link below and tell me how could anyone defend the criminals who did this ???????
http://tinyurl.com/azbogt
The most moral army in the world? You decide:
Gazans say IDF troops ignored white flags and shot at them
By Amira Hass
Feb 13, 2009, 17:39
Gaza residents are claiming that some Palestinians killed during the three weeks of fighting were waving white flags at the time they were shot. Four of them were members of the A-Najar family of the village of Khuza'a, east of Khan Yunis.
Statements attesting to the circumstances surrounding their deaths was provided to the B'Tselem human rights organization and Haaretz over the telephone.
On the night between January 12-13, Israel Defense Forces soldiers entered Khuza'a, which is only a few hundred meters from the border with Israel. A few hours of shelling caused fires, which residents attempted to put out, Monir A-Najar told Haaretz on Monday.
At around 5 A.M., the tanks started to enter the town's eastern sections. Thick smoke prevented residents from seeing what was happening, and they only heard sounds of the destruction of houses, shooting and shelling. The residents of the houses, adults and children, climbed out on the roofs of their houses on their own and for about an hour stood and waved white flags. Helicopters fired at them "in order to scare them, not to injure them," said Monir A-Najar.
At that point, about 8 A.M., the soldiers used loudspeakers to order them to gather at the center of the village. A few dozen of the residents gathered in the courtyard of Osama A-Najar's house. Monir A-Najar said the soldiers ordered them to leave the house two at a time.
The first to leave were Ruwahiya and Yasmin A-Najar. Yasmin told B'Tselem on January 14 that another group of women came out of a number of neighboring houses.
"We walked at the head of a group of women and we waved white flags. We managed to pass three houses on the street and then I saw an Israeli soldier 40 meters away aiming his weapon at us," said Yasmin A-Najar. "I thought he wanted us to come closer. Ruwahiya and I continued to walk and suddenly the soldier shot at us."
Yasmin was wounded in her right leg and Ruwahiya fell on the street with her head bleeding. The rest of the women panicked and scattered, hiding while the shooting continued.
Yasmin said she tried to return and help Ruwahiya but the soldiers fired at her. They also shot at the ambulance driver who arrived and he was forced to turn back, she said. When Ruwahiya was finally evacuated at 8 P.M., she was already dead.
In the morning, the army continued to destroy houses in the neighborhood, they said. The people who were hiding in the houses, after Ruwahiya was killed, started to flee the tanks, yelling Allahu Akhbar, said Monir A-Najar.
"We were all holding white flags, women's head scarves. We were fleeing and they were shooting at us," Monir A-Najar told Haaretz. He said special forces were deployed in the streets.
He said that when those fleeing were 100-150 meters from Osama A-Najar's house, three family members were killed: Mahmoud A-Najar, 56; Ahmad A-Najar, 25; and Halil A-Najar, 80. Monir said another 10 residents were killed that day, most from a missile that hit the school and a house next to it, where they were taking refuge.
The Palestinian Center for Human Rights said one of those killed was a member of the Iz al-Din al-Qassam militant wing of Hamas. Of the 50 houses destroyed or severely damaged in the town, the PCHR says one belonged to another Iz al-Din al-Qassam activist.
During the two weeks of the ground assault it was difficult for representatives of human rights groups to gather full statements from residents. Human rights workers were limited in their ability to meet face to face with residents due to the danger involved in travelling within the Gaza Strip, and even telephone contacts were often fragmented. They have begun gathering more precise information on the wounding deaths and injuries of many civilians.
The PCHR said the total number of dead as of January 18 was 1,251; of whom 168 were policemen. 292 were children and 97 were women. The PCHR says 179 of those killed were armed militants.
https://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/spages/1056952.html
Brian
Now prove
A) You have previously spent a proportionate amount of time denounceing the vastly more numerous atrocities carried out by you Nazi friends running NATO.
If you can't do that you prove yourself a corrupt racist Nazi liar.
B) That the links you ahve provided are at least 1,000 times closer to honest than you have proven to be you corrupt racist Nazi liar.
Or perhaps you could start quoting leni resenthal as "evidence" you Nazi Holocaust denier.
relly neil craig:
'If you can't do that you prove yourself a corrupt racist Nazi liar'
What a childish response!
Is that the nbest you can do to try dn dodge the issue of Israeli war crimes and genocide?
Israels self-described worlds most moral army shoots women waving white flags...We know Israel was upset by being thrashed by Lebanon, so it decided: well, who can we beat!
No way the world should endorse the 'state' of israel.
A 'state' founded on terrorism, ends in genociding the natives.
Id say you should be ashamed of your support for these thugs, but i realise a right wing fellow like yourself has no shame.
Brian
So no atte,pt to prove either A or B because you know you can't.
No attempt to say that you oppose genocide in principle, rather than when it is, you allege without the inconvenience of evidence, done by Jews. No attempt, even, to apologise for your Holocaust denial.
And no attempt whatsoever by a single one of the anti-Semitic demonstrators here to distance themselves from undeniable Nazis like yourself. QED
'No attempt to say that you oppose genocide in principle, rather than when it is, you allege without the inconvenience of evidence, done by Jews'
neil craig, cant see evil because his masters tell him not to. The genocide of the palestinians is a slow genocide over decades as the have resisted their expulsion by the invading zionist jews. Wevfe seen it in their attacks on gaza...attacks on civilians to either get them to leave the country or be wiped out.
Thats what you are backing Neil craig...ethnic cleaning and genocide.
The number of Palestionians expelled from Israel in 1948 was half a million - closely matching the number of middle eastern Jews subsequently arriving, having ben expelled from the Islamic countries.
The number of Palestinians currently living in Gaza & the West Bank is about 4 million.
If that is genocide I trust you will publicly admit the Israelis haven't got the hang of it & are certainly not in any way as good at it as NATO, including the Nazi whores leading the anti-Israeli movement.
Well OK - not true - I have no trust you, or any of the other Nazis making up the anti-Jewish movement will ever publicly admit any fact that contradicts your racist hysteria.
Your "protocols" inspired mention to my "masters" proves what an obscene slug you are & why every single non-Nazi in the anti-Jewish movement will wish to publicly disagree with you as every single reasonable non-Nazi in the movement has been so quick to do so earlier.
neil craig:
'The number of Palestionians expelled from Israel in 1948 was half a million - closely matching the number of middle eastern Jews subsequently arriving, having ben expelled from the Islamic countries.'
What arab countries? Not Iraq!
As ive posted before:
'It was not long before a bombshell of a different kind hit the pathetic remnants of Iraqi Jewry. They learned that the three explosions were the work not of Arab extremists, but of the very people who sought to rescue them; of a clandestine organization called 'The Movement', whose leader, 'commander of the Jewish ghettoes in Iraq', had received this letter from Yigal Allon, chief of the Palmach commandos, and subsequently Foreign Minister of Israel:'
http://www.radioislam.org/historia/zionism/iraqi_jews_hirst.html
But dont expect the truth from Neil Craig.
'The number of Palestinians currently living in Gaza & the West Bank is about 4 million'
minus 1300 massacred by Israels army.
'Well OK - not true - I have no trust you, or any of the other Nazis making up the anti-Jewish movement will ever publicly admit any fact that contradicts your racist hysteria'
all of your recent posts wax hysterical, as you desperately attempt the impossible: to make the case for zionism.
Like US congress, you bow to your masters...what hold do they have over you?
Brian
Your link is obviously a total fabrication, probably by the Iraqui secret police.
I presume you will also deny that the "Protocols" you have again endorsed were a fabrication by the Tsar's secret police.
You wholly ignore the basic points that the Palestinians driven out are equalled by the Jews driven out of the Middle East. But of course being Jews you Nazis believe they have no rights.
You also ignore the fact that the Palestinian population has more than doubled & that cannot be evidence of genocide.
And yet again every other opponent of Israel on here or in communicating with any reader here has declined to disagree with your quite obvious Nazi hate filled racist lies - this makes it a statistical certainty that virtually every member of that movement cares not in the smallest degree about human rights but only about pushing their own hate filled Nazi agenda.
neil craig:
'Your link is obviously a total fabrication, probably by the Iraqui secret police.'
the link is to a section of david Hirst's classis The Gun and the Olive Branch...i suggest you read it esp the section on The Ingathering of the Jews....
'I presume you will also deny that the "Protocols" you have again endorsed were a fabrication by the Tsar's secret police'
given the control AIPAC exerts over US congress and much of the media...
'You wholly ignore the basic points that the Palestinians driven out are equalled by the Jews driven out of the Middle East'
what jews driven out where? Were they terrorised as the palestinians were by the likes of IRGUN?
'You also ignore the fact that the Palestinian population has more than doubled & that cannot be evidence of genocide'
curious you should say that as the word 'genocide' cant also be applied to the jews nor can the word 'holocaust' as many more jews lived in places like the US.
But your continued efforts at Holocaust denial mark u as a useful patsy for the zionist efforts at wiping palestinians off the map
Brian
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