Venezuela has become the first country to expel the Israeli Ambassador from its country in protest over Israel's invasion of Gaza.
The Holocaust, that is what is happening right now in Gaza," Hugo Chavez (above), the Venezuelan president, said in televised comments.
"The president of Israel at this moment should be taken to the International Criminal Court together with the president of the United States."
Let's hope more countries have the courage to follow suit.
41 comments:
You used the very word that deferenciate Chavez from others; COURAGE.
Our politicians need not only carriage, but loads of SHAME as well.
Quite right, Dan. Israel (and the US) are like school playground bullies, they pick on different groups/countries at different times, banking that other countries will be too scared to speak out for fear that they will be next for the 'Shock and Awe' treatment. The only way for bullies to be defeated is for people to stand up to them. And that requires courage. Which Hugo Chavez has in abundance- which is why he is demonised by the neocon warmongers.
Taking on small countries is not quite as courageous as taking on bigger ones. He did not expel the ambassadors from all the NATO countries nor call for every single Nazi politician who supported the genocide of Serbs to be brought to trial.
Whatever one may think of the rights & wrongs of Israel's actions, which are after all in self defence, they do not remotely approach the evil of our own genocidal, child raping, organlegging war criminals.
Let's be clear here. In quoting from Chavez, does what he say represent your own viewpoint Neil? In which case you - Neil Clark - equate what is happening in Gaza to the Nazi Holocaust; and that the president of Israel is guilty of war crimes.
If so, you are either being a sloppy journalist or trying to be populist or dishonest. The Nazi Holocaust was a particular horrific event in European history (not the only holocaust obviously) but why is it that whenever there is warfare it is only the Jews who are ever accused of being Nazis. If people believe (really believe)(and want to believe) that the Jewish leaders of Israel are the same as the evil German Nazis then that is indeed very sad. Do these people believe that us British who have committed (along with most nations of the world througout history) horrendous acts of violence are or were Nazis?
No-one is going to pretend what is going on in Gaza is anything other than horrific for the Palestinian civilians; and for the purposes of this post we will leave out the rights and wrongs of Israel's actions (and the wrongs of Hamas). The point is that such incendiary language is to put it mildly unhelpful.
I never used to believe that being anti Zionist equated to being anti semitic; and I am certainly not making that accusation against you. However, some responses of many people on blogs etc to Israel does leaves one to conclude that there is a certain delight or willingness to do down Jews; which goes beyond having a political view that is broadly pro Palestinian and anti Israel.
I do not know whether you support the two state solution. By the sound of some of your contributors they clearly don't. One wonders in the event the Jewish state of Israel ceased to exist how the likes of Hamas would treat the Jews living in their midst. This is perhaps too horrible a thought to contemplate.
@Payl D;
Why to reserve the word Holocaust to crimes committed against jews only?
Why can't Chavez describe the ongoing massacre in Gaza as Holocaust when Israelis frequently use the word holocaust against palestinians?
In March 08, after Israeli shelling and bombing killed 110 Palestinians in a few days, Israeli Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai openly threatened Gaza with a “bigger shoah.” and this was reported all over the media. why those killers can use the word holocaust but Chavez can't?
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9354.shtml
Jewish settlers in Hebron wrote ( Arabs to gas chambers) on palestinians walls, if they used the words, why we should feel guilty for taking them seriously?
http://electronicintifada.net/artman2/uploads/2/081208-abunimah-Auschwitz.jpg
If chavez had the carriage to use the word, we should not feel guilty for hearing it.
I hope this will quell the idiotic remarks many people make about Chavez. What other leader has th guts to expell the ambassador of a genocidical govt
Brian
'Whatever one may think of the rights & wrongs of Israel's actions, which are after all in self defence,'
Neil craig..neocon alert!
Wrong neil, Israel broke the cease fire on november 4, the latest in a number of cease fires its broken, because peace is the last thing it can afford:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KntmpoRXFX4
Israel is not defending itself: YOU are defending Israel,the worlds leading genocidical entity...(is it is not a state).
Brian
'Why can't Chavez describe the ongoing massacre in Gaza as Holocaust when Israelis frequently use the word holocaust against palestinians?'
What israel is doing IS a holocaust! That makes Israel a holocaust denialist! Along with the likes of Neil Craig...
Brian
'One wonders in the event the Jewish state of Israel ceased to exist how the likes of Hamas would treat the Jews living in their midst. '
Paul D (whats the D mean?). Given the 50 + years of genocidical onslaught by the zionists, they can hardly expect to be treated kindly.! After WW2, the jews in eastern europe massacred germans who fell into their clutches.
Israel is not a state as it doesnt have fixed borders or a constitution.
Lets be clear here, Paul: who are u and what do you represent? Clearly 500+ deaths and countless maimed palestinians doesnt ruffle your zionazi conscience.
Brian
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/world/middleeast/07media.html?_r=1&emc=eta1
'Israel Puts Media Clamp on Gaza '
What is Israel afraid of?And why isnt this media censorship by the genocidical state waving red flags to the world?
We are seeing a genocide in progress and all the Paul D's an ask is 'why do they hate us(zionists)?
Brian
AJC and holocaust denial:
'AJC Deplores Expulsion of Israeli Ambassador From Venezuela
NEW YORK, Jan. 7 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- AJC strongly condemned the expulsion of Israeli Ambassador Shlomo Cohen from Venezuela.
"By expelling the Israeli Ambassador and demanding that Venezuelan Jews denounce what he outrageously calls a 'Holocaust,' Hugo Chavez is fueling hostility against his country's Jewish community, not to mention dangerously distorting the truth on the ground," said AJC Executive Director David A. Harris. "He is also revealing profound ignorance about the meaning of the Holocaust."
etc
http://sev.prnewswire.com/aerospace-defense/20090107/DC5629707012009-1.html
Profound ignorance? Id say Chavez was spot on: the profound denial is the AJCs customary role!
Brian
To Dan, portsmouth - I did not say reserve the word 'Holocaust' just to the Nazi Holocaust (please read what I said). The point is this word together with Nazi is used indiscriminately and thoughtlessly and carelessly (or deliberately and menancingly?) by opponents of Israel.
The incident you mention was just one and it was a careless use of speech by the Israeli minister.
The Hebron settlers are extremist and do not at all represent mainstream and overall Israeli opinion and is not a good example to make a general case.
Anonymous/Brian - sigh! 'Genocidal govt' 'world's leading genocidal entity' ''it is not a state'. Really? Not only are Israelis not genocidal, you seem to have a blank spot about quite a lot of nasty countries round the world. Why is that then? Is it because these countries aren't full of Jews?
And I can't believe you actually would support the murder of Jews by Hamas in the event the state (yes it is a state) ceased to exist. What on earth does that make you?
Israel is a sovereign state and is entitled to defend itself. Hamas wishes to destroy Israel and Jews (are you happy with the latest Hamas pronouncement to go and kill Jewish children around the world?).
I am not one of those who defends Israel to the hilt. Israel has done wrongs and I want to see the Palestinians live in peace.
However your emotional outburst is disturbing.
So many people are blinded to actual facts dating back to the time of the British Mandate eg were you ever concerned at the illegal occupation of parts of Palestine by Jordan up to 1967. What did any of the Arab countries ever do for the arab peoples living in the Palestine Israel region. Answer - nothing. They were used as pawns in the hope of seeking to destroy Israel.
I'm not going to go on as I'm probably wasting my time on this blog.
You rather oddly ask me who I am and what I represent. I don't represent anyone - just an ordinary poster on some blogs (eg CIF).
Holocaust mean "destruction of everything. If the Israelis were to kill or ethnicly cleanse all 1.5 million Gazans or even, say 90% of them, then that would be a holocaust.
If Dan & the others are honest then that is what Israel has done. If the Israelis have killed 100,000 than Dan & co are only 6.6% honest. In fact the figure is about 400 & Dan & anybody else using the word are proving themselves to be at least 99.97% lying racist Nazis.
The term could & should have been used about what was done to Krajina & Kosovo but since it was done by many of the same Nazi politicians (Livingston, Short etc) & supported by most of the corrupt Nazi journalists (all employees of the BBC, ITN & most of the national press) they didn't use it. They still don't.
And yes Paul - Dan, among many others, is supporting that & that is what it makes him.
Anonymous Brian you accuse me of being a neocon. Perhaps you could name some other neocon who has called for the President of the USA to face trial as a war criminal, for perpetrating genocide in Kosovo, Krajina & Bosnia.
You are a lying moron with whom every honest person on the anti-israeli movement must publicly disagree.
Here is another two examples of Israeli use of Holocaust in relation to palestinians.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3740649.stm
In 2004 Israeli justice minister in Sharon government Tommy Lapid said, a picture of a suffering Palestinian woman reminded him of his own grandmother.
2. In 2007 he wrote in an article in JPost :
((Living here among us are Jews that behave toward Palestinians exactly the way that German, Hungarian, Polish and other anti-Semites behaved toward Jews))
Here is the link to it.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1167467756320&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter
What is happening in Gaza is worse then a holocaust in the making.
The world who fought the Germans when the holocaust was going on, is defending/ watching/ supporting the new Israeli Nazis who is making a new holocaust in Gaza.
Craig the dog, wanted us to wait until the number of dead reach 100 thousand, then we are allowed to use the word Holocaust... how nice of him,
this condition doesn't apply if we wish to use the word for Kosovo..
You are an animal.
'Not only are Israelis not genocidal, you seem to have a blank spot about quite a lot of nasty countries round the world. Why is that then? Is it because these countries aren't full of Jews?'
Paul:
Just ask the americans about their zionist jews: AIPAC has pressured congress to back Israels genocidical asault on Gaza: the worlds largest concentarion camp.
The whoe world knows the zionists are genocidical, and The venezuelan and cuban govts are the few who are not bought and paid for by their jewish citizens and so can speakr the truth.
Brian
Venezuela does the right thing: THATS because its not controlled by zionists jews:
'On Tuesday the Venezuelan National Assembly had a minute of silence for the victims of the Israeli armed forces in the Gaza strip. Legislator Roy Daza proposed the minute of silence, saying that the attacks on Gaza deserve the complete rejection of the international community.
Daza said the invasion is genocide against the Palestinian people and asked the National Assembly to sign a declaration condemning the actions of the Israeli government as criminal.
The National Assembly in its official statement demanded a cease of all military action by Israel in Gaza and rejected the attitude taken on by the United Nations Security Council of not stopping the “massacre…owing to the veto imposed by the United States government.”
It said, “An end must be brought to the occupation of the territories [of Palestine], and to the siege imposed on the Gaza strip, to the Israeli settlements, and the question of the Palestinian refugees must be resolved, to be able to guarantee peace in the region.”
The Palestinian flag will be raised in the National Assembly for one month as a gesture of solidarity.
etc
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/4089
Brian
NOTE: ISRAEL NOT HAMAS ENDED THE CEASEFIRE ON NOV 2004 BY KILLING 6 PALESTINIANS.
Neil craig: wrote the following:
1.
'Whatever one may think of the rights & wrongs of Israel's actions, which are after all in self defence, they do not remotely approach the evil of our own genocidal, child raping, organlegging war criminals.'
Then he had the gall to follow up eith the following in response to my challenge:
'You are a lying moron with whom every honest person on the anti-israeli movement must publicly disagree.'
SO is he part of the 'anti-israeli movement'? Not bloody likely.
He is what i claimed: a neocon supporter of Israels genocidical assault on Gaza.
NOTE NEIL: ISRAEL ENDED TRHE CEASEFIRE ON NOV 4 WHEN IT ATTACKED GAZA AND KILLED 6 PALESTINIANS.
http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/66962-cnn-israel-broke-gaza-cease-fire
So Israel was NOT defending itself: it was creating a casus belli.
'And I can't believe you actually would support the murder of Jews by Hamas in the event the state (yes it is a state) ceased to exist. What on earth does that make you'
Paul: Israel is not a state: as it hsa no fixed borders nor constitution...What it is is acontrinuation of the nazis. Only it uses its victim status to commit war crimes.
Your lack of concern for > 500 dead palestinians created when isreal delibeatly put an end to the cease fire on nov 4 shows you are an agent of the zionazis.
What does the D stand for? Are you jewish? you are a zionist.
Paul D:
'Israel is a sovereign state and is entitled to defend itself. Hamas wishes to destroy Israel and Jews '
Iraq was a sovereign state before the US backed by Israel destroyed it.
Israel is not state at all. Its history is one of genocidical violence against the native palestinians. most isreali towns are built on palestinian graves.
'I am not one of those who defends Israel to the hilt. Israel has done wrongs and I want to see the Palestinians live in peace'
what a liar! Dont you read your own posts?
'I'm not going to go on as I'm probably wasting my time on this blog.'
Go back to your masters and tell them this blog is not the US congress.
Brian
'Holocaust mean "destruction of everything. If the Israelis were to kill or ethnicly cleanse all 1.5 million Gazans or even, say 90% of them, then that would be a holocaust.'
Neil Craig:
Is this what you wish: wait till theya re ALL dead, then Neil C will cry Holocaust!...a bit late...
Thanks for telling us there was no jewish holocaust....and for what you support: aka the zionist genocidal campaign
Now maybe the Holocaust industry will return the money its extorted.
Brian
For Neil C and Paul D:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1107587/Red-Crosss-fury-Israel-rescuers-starving-children-clinging-mothers-corpses-Gaza.html
Even the red cross is furious with israel!
Brian
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21680.htm
Holocaust Denied
The lying silence of those who know
By John Pilger
January 08, 2009 "Information Clearinghouse" -- -"When the truth is replaced by silence," the Soviet dissident Yevgeny Yevtushenko said, "the silence is a lie." It may appear the silence is broken on Gaza. The cocoons of murdered children, wrapped in green, together with boxes containing their dismembered parents and the cries of grief and rage of everyone in that death camp by the sea, can be viewed on al-Jazeera and YouTube, even glimpsed on the BBC. But Russia's incorrigible poet was not referring to the ephemeral we call news; he was asking why those who knew the why never spoke it and so denied it. Among the Anglo-American intelligentsia, this is especially striking. It is they who hold the keys to the great storehouses of knowledge: the historiographies and archives that lead us to the why.
They know that the horror now raining on Gaza has little to do with Hamas or, absurdly, "Israel's right to exist." They know the opposite to be true: that Palestine's right to exist was canceled 61 years ago and the expulsion and, if necessary, extinction of the indigenous people was planned and executed by the founders of Israel.
etc
Brian
A lot of anonyrats coming out of their holes.
I take it the last anonyrat Brian, not being a complete hypocrit will, having quoted Polger on those who remain silent, denounce the previous anonyrat Brian, for using the Red cross allegations as credible.
After all this is the same Red Cross who did not accuse the NATO countries of war crimes because of their murders AFTER "peace" was achieved in Kosovo. A closer comparison to the finding of "starving" children (anybody know how long it takes to starve) would be the genuine starving to death of an elderly Serb couple after NATO took over because the NATO "police" would not let them leave their house.
We know that our media & these international organisations (the UN, Red Cross, Amnesty, HRW etc) are whores spreading their legs for their paymasters. We know they have all pushed propaganda subsequently proven to be lies to support Nazi genmocide. We know that the Nazis here will tell absolutely any anti-Semitic/anti-Slavic lie to promote murder.
Lets see some genuine evidence from sources uncorrupted by Nazism.
To Anonymous Brian: You impudent fellow. You keep asking what the 'D' in my name stands for as if that is of any relevance. Duh! it's the first letter of my surname would you believe? Have you provided this blog with your full name. No you have not. So what's your point sir?
What does Brian stand for - Let's see - maybe "Brainless Reactionary Idiotic Anti-semitic Nuthead."
I'm sorry. I don't like to engage in writing insults and Sun type headlines - but some of the stuff Brian is ranting on about is soooo out of order in what should be a proper debating chamber.
You keep saying that Israel is not a state. You may not agree that it should have ever been created and it is perfectly possible to argue that without causing offence. However it is a sovereign state. It is not clear if you wish to argue Israel is not a state so as to justify (as you appear to be doing) the Palestianians/Arabs murdering Jews in the event Israel no longer existed. I note you do not disagree that the Hamas Jihadists would act like that.
Your use of the word 'zionist' is purely pejorative (i.e. you are using it like a swear word). You are also using the word zionist as effectively synonymous with Jewish (viz your reference to US Zionists). Are you people not aware that the vast (i.e around 80%)majority of American Jews routinely vote Democrat and did so in the recent US election. In other words they do not vote Republican and did not vote for Bush or for the Iraq war.
Your reference to 'my masters' is downright outrageous and insulting and smacks of a belief in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Do you believe that then little Brian.
I have no masters you fool.I read lots of blogs (those with whom I often agree and those with whom I often disagree)and sometimes comment on them.
I also take great exception to your use of the word 'liar'. I am sick and moved and uncomfortable at what is happening to the people in Gaza. I want peace in the region and support the two state solution (which the Palestinians could have had under Arafat and also could have had in 1947.)
However, for people on this blog (and others) encouraged by the host Neil Clark to go on as if Israel is a genocidal nation committing the equivalent of the evil Nazi Holocaust is soooo wrong and malicious.
What about Darfur, Zimbabwe, China, the Congo and slaughters and killings all around the world that does not get anything like the coverage that anything Israel gets. It is sad to reflect.
It is sad people like you actually believe the Israelis are psychotic and like going around killing Palestinians. This is simply not true. Israelis wish to live in peace with their neighbours and this has always been the case. It is not Israel's fault that all their Arab neighbours wished to destroy them.
How many Palestinian suicide bombs have their been in Israel killing loads of civilians? Far too many of course. And how many Israeli suicide bombers bave their been? None I think.
.
NEIL CRAIG: RED CROSS is far more credible than you or the israelis.
Brian
Brian I gave a specific case analagous to, but much worse, than the one the Red Cross claim to be upset about. If they were as credible as you claim they would have condenmed NATO in far stronger terms for this atrocity alne (this is actually very mioor compared to their worase crimes like dissecting thousands of Serbs for their body parts. If you have a factual disagreement say what it is.
Paul you are absolutely right & the "our masters" remark is indeed particularly obscene. Be assured that though a few sites like this say such things & our broadcasters are clearly partisan (again) it is clear that there is a strong feeling in the British people who understand perfectly well that Israel has made every attempt to have peace & that this war has been forced on them & must be fought.
Neil Craig like the shameless politicians cant wait to bend over for the zionists:
'Today's Miami Herald and I'll bet also in Fort Lauderdale, has a full page ad for a demonstation in support of Israel to be held in Miami Beach at the Holocaust Museum. The ad is signed by all elected officials from Florida and this includes both parties as well as so many groups that I lost count. '
http://www.atlargely.com/2009/01/israel-war-crimes-and-shame.html
'I also take great exception to your use of the word 'liar'. I am sick and moved and uncomfortable at what is happening to the people in Gaza. I want peace in the region and support the two state solution (which the Palestinians could have had under Arafat and also could have had in 1947.)'
what a liar Paul....all ive seen you write shows your support for the terrorist Israel. I dont believe in your crocodile tears.
Proof:
'However, for people on this blog (and others) encouraged by the host Neil Clark to go on as if Israel is a genocidal nation committing the equivalent of the evil Nazi Holocaust is soooo wrong and malicious'
Id call what we are seeing in Gaza a Holocaust.
'What about Darfur, Zimbabwe, China, the Congo and slaughters and killings all around the world '
there is no Holocaust in Zimbabwe...try not to show your reflexive robotic mindset.
Brian
Dear Brian,
I really do not wish to trade insults but it is simply not helpful to wrongfully seek to call me a 'liar'. You may not believe what I say but that is not the same thing. One needs to have some kind of empirical evidence based on fact to accuse someone of an untruth.
Having read a lot of what appears on this blog it appears - and you are a prime example of this - that those who believe that Israel is some kind of 'rogue genocidal terrorist' state cannot simply fathom that anyone decent could take a different view.
Well, fortunately there are immense numbers of decent, sensible peace yearning people who consider reasonably that Israel was entitled to take action against Hamas because of the constant assault of rockets into its civilian areas over a period of several years.
And let's not hear this nonsense I've seen spewed around on some blogsites that the Hamas rockets are just like the fireworks you get on Guy Fawkes night and are no more than a little nuisance. You may wish to know that the range of these rockets has increased significantly over the past 8 years and will no doubt keep increasing. The reason the Israeli civilian casualties are kept under control is because of all the bunkers, bomb shelters the Israelis put in place to protect its citizens. It's not much fun having to have your life on hold and to keep running to shelters - But that is exactly what has been happening to the Israeli population in the areas targeted by the Hamas rockets.
Now I have stated before that I do not support all that Israel does and have misgivings at what the ground assault will ultimately achieve.
But I'm afraid to people like you being Israeli or a zionist is the equivalent of a left wing person calling someone a racist or right wing or a right winger calling someone a communist. It's like the worst kind of insult imaginable.
How has it come to such a stage that the unthinking left have such a default position regarding Israel.
Perhaps Brian you are not aware that once upon a time support for Israel WAS the default position for the political left- not so long ago (even Harold Pinter was a strong supporter of Israel at one time). This may have been connected to the fact that for the first 30 years of its existence Israel had a socialist government and socialist zionism was an ok thing.
So the argument that Israel has always been bad and aggressive etc looks a little odd when the left overwhelmingly supported Israel for many years.
You say there is no holocaust in Zimbabwe. Spot on - you agree with my point then as there is equally no Holocaust in Gaza!! The Israelis do not wish to exterminate the Gazan population like the German Nazis wished to exterminate the Jews of Europe. (If Israel did have that policy I would be vociferous in condemnation of it).
On the other hand Hamas in its founding charter wishes to destroy the Jews (not just Israel). You should be aware that Hamas is constrained by the relgious influence of its leaders and backers and that any talk of a deal with Israel is intended to only be temporary to enable them to become stronger and ultimately destroy Israel and kill all the Jews. Is that what you would like to happen Brian? I sincerely hope not.
Paul:
'Having read a lot of what appears on this blog it appears - and you are a prime example of this - that those who believe that Israel is some kind of 'rogue genocidal terrorist' state cannot simply fathom that anyone decent could take a different view. '
No one decent CAN take a different view. Ergo,you are not decent'!
Well, fortunately there are immense numbers of decent, sensible peace yearning people who consider reasonably that Israel was entitled to take action against Hamas because of the constant assault of rockets into its civilian areas over a period of several years.'
If you are referring to the zionists...they are not decent:
http://news.antiwar.com/2009/01/12/israeli-sightseers-flock-to-border-to-watch-gaza-killings/
'Perhaps Brian you are not aware that once upon a time support for Israel WAS the default position for the political left- not so long ago '
The default position of the political left is often wrong,as it is over 9-11.
'You say there is no holocaust in Zimbabwe. Spot on - you agree with my point then as there is equally no Holocaust in Gaza!! The Israelis do not wish to exterminate the Gazan population like the German Nazis wished to exterminate the Jews of Europe. (If Israel did have that policy I would be vociferous in condemnation of it).'
Genocide of palestinian arabs has been the official zionist position from its inception.
'On the other hand Hamas in its founding charter wishes to destroy the Jews (not just Israel)
SO Hamas wants to destroy jews everywhere??? Thats chutzpah!
Thats why it dont take you seriously Paul...but see you as a zionist defending the indefensible.
Noone familar with a history of 'israel' can regard it as anything other than a worse nazism. Just after the nazis were exteminating jews, slavs roma and other 'undesirables, zionist jewish were engaged in terror campaigns in palestine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
That happend in 1946!
Brian
Nobody reading this can doubt that Brian is a Nazi willing to tell absolutely any lie to promote his cause.
The important thing is not that he is but that nobody in the anti-Israel movement is willing to say what a piece of filth he, & those like him, are. It is a bit like those members of the party who, in 1945, explained that they had never personally believed in putting people in gas chambers it is just that they felt a need to loyally support their leader.
Equally very few (well ok pretty much only Neil) is willing to criticise real genocide when it is carried out against "untermensch" by the very same genocidal mass murderers, such as Short & Livingston, who are loudest in attacking Israel.
Dear Neil Craig,
I agree with you. I do not know why I bother arguing with the likes of 'Brian'. He sounds as if he is 17 and seems to think if you scream the word 'zionist'in a venomous way, it somehow makes him a 'good guy' - which he clearly is not.
I'm not into name calling but Brian has no idea how to construct an argument or to respond to salient points property made.
Look at this nonsense for example:
"Genocide of palestinian arabs has been the official zionist position from its inception"
and
"Noone familar with a history of 'israel' can regard it as anything other than a worse nazism."
Both statements are of course false and fanciful and he clearly has no knowledge or understanding or perspective of the history concerning this whole region let alone the history of Germany in the first half of the 20th Century.
He has no idea of what the word 'genocide' means. If Israel wanted to exterminate all Arabs in the region and create some kind of 'Greater Israel' when why give back large tracts of land to them eg Sinai, West Bank, Gaza over the years; why offer the Arabs a state at Oslo?
Brian's one example of the bombing of the King David Hotel was a terrorist act but not part of a genocide of course. How many countries in becoming a country have not committed bad acts? The answer of course is none. Australia and New Zealand did not have an apartheid problem as they wiped out most of the indigineous population.
Many people would regard the British bombing of civilians in Dresden at the end of WW2 as a war crime. Should Churchill have been put on trial then?
Britain has committed many acts of unjustified violence over the ages as have all the big powers. That is the way the world has been.
I hope you agree Neil (Craig) but I really think our host Neil Clark should come and specifically distance himself from some of his contributers; otherwise we may have to conclude he agrees with them.
'Nobody reading this can doubt that Brian is a Nazi willing to tell absolutely any lie to promote his cause.'
Neil Craig honorary zionazi seems not to know what nazis are...lets ask a man who knows:
'Jewish British lawmaker likens Israel to Nazis
AFPJanuary 15, 2009 10:02 AM
LONDON - A veteran British Jewish lawmaker compared the Israeli offensive in Gaza Thursday to the Nazis who forced his family to flee from Poland.
Gerald Kaufman, a member of the Jewish Labour movement linked to Prime Minister Gordon Brown’s ruling party, also called for an arms embargo against Israel.
"My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town . . . a German soldier shot her dead in her bed," Kaufman said during a parliamentary debate on the 20-day-old war which has left over 1,000 dead.
"My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza.
"The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploit the continuing guilt from gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians."
etc
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Jewish+British+lawmaker+likens+Israel+Nazis/1180734/story.html
SO here we have zionist jews (and their credulous fawners) are nazis.
'Equally very few (well ok pretty much only Neil) is willing to criticise real genocide when it is carried out against "untermensch" by the very same genocidal mass murderers, such as Short & Livingston, who are loudest in attacking Israel.'
We care criticising real genocide, you poor excuse for a human...Thats the one being carried out by nazi israel, aided by Yes men like yourself.
Brian
here is what Neil Craig is defending:
"Israel doesn't target civilians"
Really? I just saw this little girl on Al Jazeera TV. The article doesn't say, but I'd say she was about 7:
"I saw the soldier standing next to the shop. I looked for my mum and then he shot me. One bullet him my hand and the other went through my back and out through my stomach," Samar, a young girl, told Al Jazeera while recovering from her wounds at a Gaza hospital.
As for the shelling of the U.N. compound, Israel claims it was triggered by "militants inside the compound [who] shot anti-tank weapons and machine guns." The U.N.'s John Ging, who was inside the compound at the time, denounces this claim as "nonsense."
Was it coincidence that this attack destroyed thousands of tons of humanitarian aid? Perhaps. But curiously, that destruction comes on the very same day that Israeli gunboats threatened to fire on the Free Gaza ship filled with humanitarian supplies headed for Gaza, and stopped an Iranian ship also on the way to Gaza with tons of humanitarian aid. Punishing the civilian population, making them suffer, in an attempt to achieve a political end (the removal of Hamas), has of course been the Israeli strategy all along, explicitly stated by Israel, so the extension of that strategy to denying or destroying humanitarian aid would hardly be a stretch
http://lefti.blogspot.com/2009_01_01_archive.html#5383316152308770570
Brian
Well Anonynous Brian firstly lets remember that it is you who have repeteadly refused to say one word in condemnation of real genocide in Yugoslavia carried out by such obscene racist leaders of the anti-Israel movement as Livingston & Short. Once again I call on you to give up being an obscene genocidal child raping Nazi whore & condemn them.
Now as to your "news" which, so impressed you as the height of "proof" of Israeli "genocide" lets look at it.
Firstly the injuring, not killing, of 1 bystander in combat cannot, with any trace of honesty, be compred with the deliberate murder of thousnads (or millions) of individuals purely to dispode of them as a race, in time of peace (or in the Auschwitz case far from any combat) carried out by NATO & the various Nazis. Beyond that let us look at what was alleged - that an Israeli soldier deliberately fired 2 shots into a Palestinian girl with his high velocity combat rifle & then took, or allowed somebody else to take her (or theoretically was killed or dirven to flee by Hamas warriors - in which unlikely case it was a very hot combat zone & he can hardly be blamed for shooting first). However if you knew anything whatsoever about modern weapons (or if the propagandist who made up the story expected anti-Israelis to know or care) you would know that it is virtually impossible that a child could have survived 2 shots, 1 through the stomach at close range. The shock wave alone would have killed her. If & I mean if, there is any truth to the story it must have been shrapnel that hit her. Since she was close to an Israeli soldier the shrapnel would likely have been from a Hamas mortar.
This is, according to you, the very be4st evidence you can produce of what you have previously claimed to be an Israeli genocide intended to kill all 1.5 million Gazans.
If you were remotely interested in facts rather than your racist lies you would now apologise. Even the Catholic Church has now apologised for claiming Jews were killing children (albeit 700 years late) - perhaps you can improve on that.
Neil Craig, the zionazi puppet, in a moment of spleen said:
'Well Anonynous Brian firstly lets remember that it is you who have repeteadly refused to say one word in condemnation of real genocide in Yugoslavia carried out by such obscene racist leaders of the anti-Israel movement as Livingston & Short'
Which i read as your concern is less with Yugoslavia than Israel!
'Now as to your "news" which, so impressed you as the height of "proof" of Israeli "genocide" lets look at it.'
Be nice if you would, but you do so with an eye formed of an irrational hate of arabs. As i read your artful dodging, you seem unwilling to face the 100 + palestinian deaths and 1.5 million (as reported by Jonathon Cook) wounded..NOT ALLEGED.
Taek this situation:
'UN: Israel herded civilians into house it later shelled
01/09/2009 | 06:17 PM
Email this | Email the Editor | Print | ShareThisJERUSALEM — A UN agency has said Israeli troops evacuated Palestinian civilians to a house in Gaza City, then shelled the building 24 hours later.
The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs dated the incident to Jan. 4, a day after Israel began its ground offensive against Hamas militants in Gaza.
Based on eyewitness testimony, the account added details to an incident previously reported by The Associated Press and an Israeli human rights group.
The UN agency said 110 people were in the house and 30 people were killed, far higher figures than in other accounts.
It said a Red Cross medical team was blocked from reaching the area until three days later. Rescuers were allowed in on foot, without ambulances.
The Israeli military had no comment on the report Friday. - AP
http://www.gmanews.tv/story/143448/UN-Israel-herded-civilians-into-house-it-later-shelled
YES, the Israel war machine has no comment..they depend on the Neil Craigs to carry the water for them.
'If you were remotely interested in facts rather than your racist lies you would now apologise'
Im sorry youre such a brain dead individual that you cant see the Chosen People are engaged in a genocidical project..which permits them to bomb UN facilities, while publically lying there were militants present...Not that it would be less of a crime if there were.
Brian
You mean because Jonathan Cook claims that israel have wounde 1.5 million Gazans (ie every last one of them) this makes it a fact. Perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word "allege"
Nonetheless I accept your claim of 1.5 million injuries must be aceopted as precisely as true as the previous claim I showed must be a lie or indeed as anything claimed by you supporters of child enslvement & Nazi genocide. Now that is a fact not an allegation.
'You mean because Jonathan Cook claims that israel have wounde 1.5 million Gazans (ie every last one of them) this makes it a fact. Perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word "allege"'
Neil 'Craog; is now engaging in genocide denial...a felony.
if you want to complain, write to Cook. BUT since Gaza is an enclosed concentration camp, its no surprise if all or most are injured.
Brian
Moron.
Brian is now, by saying that, with the fighting over unless Hamas start again, that all 1.5 million have been injured is alleging that they have not all been killed.
Since we have already shown that the by the very highest standard of honesty of which the anyi-Israel movement is capable the Israels were accused of carrying out the muder of all 1.5m,.
Since., in Brian's insane world people get arrested for deying genocide Brian himself must be incarcerated in his personal padded cell for denying that the Israelis have done as accused.
The only serious point here is that it is crystal clear that nobody of significance among the anti-Israel Nazis is restrained in the smallest degree by facts & that, given the chance, would make telling the truth as severely punished an offence as any political movement in history. With such obscene scum opposing them it becomes undeniable that Israel is indeed on the side of civilisation.
Yhank you Paul for your post of 5.36 which I was just notified of. I know that Neil Clark has an honourable record opposing NATO's atrocities in Yugoslavia to assist the KLA genocide & am disappointed he cannot apply the same ethical standards to resisting smaller but equally genocidal attacks by Hamas.
I suspect he finds difficulty in openly opposing anybody claiming to be of the "left". This is a common failing, indeed one which was well used by the MSM in selling our Nazi friends as leftist & Milosevic as "another Hitler". The Nazi whore Short announcef that anybody who didn't agree with her in bombing hospitals wasn't a "socialist".
This same weakness has allowed Luddites committed to going back to the Middle Ages to equally pose as "leftist" without argument & robbed the left of its previous legitimate claim to be technologicaly progressive.
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