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Sunday, July 24, 2011

We're all Norwegians now

Well, over a day on from first hearing about this appalling atrocity, I find it still very hard to get my head round the scale of this incredibly vicious and evil attack.

Not that it’s hard to work out why far-right fanatics hate the Norwegian political system.


Douglas said...

I take no joy in this. I join in mourning for the victims. It makes it harder to have a reasonable conversation about the consequences of multiculturalism.

Will Mark Steyn be linked with Anders Breivik because of his book "America Alone?" He shouldn't, but he most likely will be.

Will Thilo Sarrazin be linked with
Anders Breivik because of his book "Germany Abolishes Itself?" He shouldn't, but he probably will be.

"Democracy, Immigration, Multiculturalism. Pick any two." This was true before the attack took place, and will be true next week, month, year.

We're all Norwegians now, but what exactly is a Norwegian, exactly?

brian said...


Police Had Drilled Setting off Bombs in Same Area a Few Days Earlier


US and NATO intelligence have been shown to possess extraordinary capabilities inside Norway, many of which may be operating outside of the control of the Norwegian government. In early November 2010, the Oslo television channel TV2 exposed the existence of an extensive network of paid assets and informants of US intelligence recruited from the ranks of retired police and other officials. The ostensible goal of this program was the surveillance of Norwegians who were taking part in demonstrations and other activities critical of the United States and its policies. One of the Norwegians recruited was the former chief of the anti-terror section of the Oslo police

did u know the US has subervted former norwegia policemen?

brian said...

Now its odd that we have what looks like foreign subervsion in Norway, and foreign subervsion in both cases the US is backing groups : the norway ex police and right wing groups(?), and jihadis in Libya.

Douglas said...

On further review, the bloggers Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch and "Baron Bodissey" of Gates of Vienna are the candidates for crucifixion, as they were mentioned as being quoted frequently in Breivik's "manifesto," (yes, those are sneer quotes) in the New York Times article.

Let the record show that the NYT provided no instances of Breivik's quotations of Spencer and Baron Bodissey. A reader has no way of knowing whether or not the conclusion drawn by the NYT is true. I don't know what you call something like this in the UK, but in the US, it's commonly referred to as a "hit piece," or "drive-by-journalism."

brian said...

youd not think thered be anyone of voting age who would defend Breiviks slaugter...let alone a media columnist....but youd be wrong:

Neil Clark said...

Hi Douglas-thanks for your posts. fyi

Ideas do have consequences.

brian: youd not think thered be anyone of voting age who would defend Breiviks slaugter.

Yes, I did think that. Imagine the outcry if a leftist had committed such a terrible atrocity and a left-wing writer had then written a piece like Bolt's.

jack said...

The more information that is coming out it is starting to confirm my initial suspicion that it is the hand of a classical British intelligence operation shifting our foreign policy away from the Israel centred/Neocon Mid East towards Russia and Eurasia to its pre 9/11 policy especially seeing how this new white/anti-Islamic/anti-multiculturalist movement Al Qaeda style terror network modelled on their largely London based and centred jihadist network was planned and organised in London in 2002 from fascist leaders around Europe organising setting up terrorist cell under the pretext to launch attacks against western states that support Islam.

“In his manifesto Breivik said the gathering in London was “not a stereotypical ‘rightwing’ meeting full of underprivileged, racist skinheads with a short temper”. Instead, he claimed those present were successful entrepreneurs, “business or political leaders, some with families, most Christian conservatives, but also some agnostics and even atheists”.

Breivik said the handful of far-right activists had travelled to London from across Europe, and most had not met each other before. He did not name those present, but claims two of them, including the host, were English, as well as one French, one German, one Dutch, one Greek, one Russian and one Serbian. “They obviously wanted resourceful, pragmatical [sic] individuals who were able to keep information away from their loved ones and who were not in any way flagged by their governments.”

At 23 years old, Breivik says he was the youngest person at the meeting, and had first been put in contact with others in the group by a “Serbian crusader commander”.

At the end of the sessions, he says, he was “ordinated as the 8th justicar knight for the PCCTS, Knights Templar Europe” the name he uses to sign off the last entry in his diary before carrying out Friday’s attacks.

It was at this meeting that he also claims to have struck up his friendship with his mentor. Breivik says he and “Richard”, who took the pseudonym in reference to Richard the Lionheart, had a “relatively close relationship”.

According to the document, the meeting in London was followed by two larger events held in “Balticum”, which attracted people from all over Europe. He says there was a high level of security at the gatherings, adding that those attending were told not to communicate to people outside.

“Some of us were unfamiliar with each other beforehand, so I guess we all took a high-risk meeting face to face electronic or telephonic communication was completely prohibited, before, during and after the meetings. On our last meeting it was emphasised clearly that we cut off contact indefinitely. Any type of contact with other cells was strictly prohibited.”


jack said...


Putin/Russia are well aware they want to destabilise Russia on the one hand supporting jihadist separatists and on the other support ultra-nationalist/fascist to spark civil war in Russia just like in the former Yugoslavia which he has even referenced in his current manifesto.

“In some places, the sponsors and have resorted to the rhetoric of the Liberal Democratic Party. "The current tensions in international relations - is, on the one hand, a consequence of failures in national politics, but on the other - the result of purposeful activity and externally funded forces of radical-nationalist and extremist" - says one of the sections.”

The ultra-nationalist coming to power in Russia after instability and threatening western Europe has long been promoted in the media especially books and video games.

In 2007 the major international foreign policy think tank CSIS published a paper where theoretical situations were laid out the Putin would be assassinated, the country would be engulfed in civil war and fascist would come putting minority groups in concentration camps to be later saved by Khoderkovsky and the western backed liberals.

“Yes, I did think that. Imagine the outcry if a leftist had committed such a terrible atrocity and a left-wing writer had then written a piece like Bolt's.”

Like NATO's Operation Gladio operations in Europe during the Cold War.

Douglas said...

I haven't heard of David Lindsay or the blog Economics is for Donkeys before, but I have heard of Justin Raimondo. I commented at the first two posts you recommended to me.

If you say that ideas have consequences, then maybe Noam Chomsky should be crucified for his influence on Osama bin Laden.

Breivik quoted a large number of people in his rambling screed, both living and dead. Chances are good that he quoted at least one person of which you approve.

As I think of Breivik, I recall the shootings where Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was wounded in January of 2011. A great effort was made to establish a connection between the shooter, Jared Loughner, and conservative politicians such as Sarah Palin. The effort failed because, among other things, no such connection existed. A great effort is now being made to establish connections between Breivik, and people quoted in his screed. I believe the effort will fail for the same reasons.

We just live in different worlds.