Tuesday, October 14, 2008

Socialists for McCain?


Should the British left be hoping that John McCain wins the American presidential election next month? asks The Exile

He continues:

One of the giants of British socialism, the late Ian Mikardo, once said that you can't make a socialist omelet without cracking a fair few capitalist eggs. One of those eggs that is going to have to be cracked sooner of later is the NATO alliance, and there is more chance of that happening with a McCain presidency than with the version that Obama will offer. With Obama we are liable to receive a charm offensive that will aim at repairing the damage done to Anglo-American relations by the chimp, coupled with some solid Keynesian policies at home that could shore up the crumbling American economic system. If you look at things in that light, McCain might very well turn out to be the man for us.


I can’t fault The Exile’s logic (as always, its impeccable)- and the fact that the warmongering neocon loon and former Wally of the Week Christopher Hitchens is now urging people to ‘Vote Obama‘ hardly makes the case any weaker. Even so, I couldn’t bring myself to cheer if John ’Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran’ McCain does win (which admittedly seems unlikely) even though it might hasten the demise of NATO.

How about you?

7 comments:

Anonymous said...

Logic?..Giant?

'One of the giants of British socialism, the late Ian Mikardo, once said that you can't make a socialist omelet without cracking a fair few capitalist eggs. One of those eggs that is going to have to be cracked sooner of later is the NATO alliance, and there is more chance of that happening with a McCain presidency than with the version that Obama will offer.'

This sort of socialist absurdity raises its head every now and again. Lets let an extremist into power, who will expose the follies of capitalism.

Sorry...no. Giants are not only not very bright they are rather clumsy.
Im not interested in any sort of omelet if it means the eggs to be cracked are our future viability as a society.

That this sort of idea is being prmotoed yet again is why its dangerous to let giants, socialist or otherwise suggest absurd ideas with dangerous side effects.

This is the danger of a seductive theory...has Mikardo ever seen this in practice? or is he suggesting we try an experiment!

Sorry, but you can do it with some other planet.

robin carmody said...

Agreed.

I'd be happy to call myself a socialist, but I don't want to take any more risks of this kind. It should be remembered that the same people were saying exactly the same thing eight years ago about Bush being "better" than Gore. We all know what happened there.

olching said...

I like the Exile's logic. I don't think it's about supporting McCain or even being 'against' Obama (who doesn't like him on some level?), but it's about understanding how international politics work.

The pseudo-left has always misunderstood the Democrats to be the natural ally of leftists in Europe, but of course they are not (let's remember Bill's overly aggressive foreign policy).

My solution is to enjoy whatever happens: If the Republicans lose, it will be funny to see their glum faces; if the Democrats lose, at least we know where we are at with the US administration.

I like Obama, but the Exile is right to claim that a victory by Obama would strengthen the Anglo-American alliance, NATO, etc, because - similar to Bill - he's good at sweet-talking Europeans into subservience.

Who do I want to win? It's so difficult. I can't stand the neo-con dominated Republican party and am certainly not wanting McCain to win, but I see and appreciate (and even tacitly agree) with the Exile's logic.

Let's pick up the pieces after the election; whatever happens.

Neil Clark said...

good comments, many thanks.
It is impossible to dislike Obama, as olching says- the problem I have is not so much with Obama but with his choice of running mate- Joe Biden supported the Iraq war and took a virulently anti-Federal Yugoslavia line in the 1990s. It was a poor choice by Obama, intended to deflect neocon media criticisms that he was not 'hard' enough on defence. That said, 'Michael' Palin is even worse.
McCain/Palin is such a dreadful, dreadful twosome it's very hard to want to see them win, even though it might hasten the demise of NATO.

David Lindsay said...

But NATO, like the McCain candidacy, is doomed anyway, especially after the ruinous adventure in Afghanistan. And Obama embodies, as Hillary Clinton very pointedly does not, the key shift in the Democratic Party from the Make The World Anew trigger-happiness of Truman in Korea, Kennedy and Johnson in South East Asia, and Bill Clinton all over the place.

Long before, and then alongside, the shift away from the Boston Irish Catholicism of Kennedy or the Texan Baptist principles of Johnson on moral issues, this was the really bad thing about the Democrats, even without wishing in any way to detract from their staggering domestic achievements such as the New Deal and Civil Rights (Clinton, on the other hand, sent his voters' jobs to Mexico as well as their sons to Yugoslavia, Somalia and all the rest).

But the takeover of the Republican Party by warmongering old Trots has shifted the Democrats decisively and for generations to come. The nomination of Obama rather than his main rival manifests and secures that shift.

McCain, by contrast, wants Robert Kagan as Secretary of State and Randy Scheunemann as National Security Advisor.

It has to be Obama.

neil craig said...

Whenn you remeber that Clinton was a populsit Democrat & an active supporter of genocide & that Biden is an out & out Nazi on record as saying he wants to see all Serbs put in "Nazi-style concentration camps" I am not convinced that the world will be safer with Obama. More charmed & "inspired" certainly but does history not teach us that such leaders are the bloodiest ones?

Anonymous said...

The Exile proves the snake-like seduction of logic. Dont be fooled. Logic i the hands of a master tactician can be used to prove anything you like...

Brian