What do you think of the senior US politician who said of Israel:
"We should go to Tel Aviv and we should have a Japanese-German style occupation of that country"
What a disgusting Judeophobic, fascist scumbag, eh?
Except the politician in question, US Vice President Joe Biden didn’t say those things about Israel, but about Serbia. As I highlighted in a Guardian article here, Serb-bashing is one of the last acceptable forms of racism in the world today. If Biden had made his comments about having a 'Japanese-German style occupation' of Israel, or indeed any other country, he would not only not be US Vice-President, he’d probably be in prison for race-hate crimes. But he said them about Serbia, and so he gets to be appointed the second most powerful man in the most powerful country in the world.
Today, Biden visits Serbia- to try to bully the government there to accept an ‘independent’ (ie US vassal state) Kosovo and to support the failed US puppet state of Bosnia. Let’s hope this loathsome racist gets the reception he deserves.
(Svetlana has more details on the protests planned by Serbs at the racist's visit.)
UPDATE: I have amended this post due to not being able to find 100% authentication of other anti-Serb quotes ascribed to Biden. If anyone can send in links to the primary sources where Biden made the alleged comments: "Serbs are illiterate degenerates, baby killers, butchers and rapists" and "all Serbs should be put in Nazi-style concentration camps", please let me know and I will reinsert the quotes and amend the piece again. Many thanks. In any case, Biden's disgusting remarks about a 'Japanese-German style occupation' of Serbia are damning enough, especially given the horrors that the Serbs experienced during the Nazi occupation of Yugoslavia in World War Two.
44 comments:
Maybe this is helpful:
http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=MDVkYTJiZmUxNzlmM2VjN2FlMzU4Nzg1MmI4Y2I1ZDQ=
Look at the one of the quote near the bottom of the text. It relates to his stylish occupation.
If the URL gets corrupted you may find it here:
http://original.antiwar.com/malic/2009/05/19/biden-does-the-balkans/
and then click on "May 9, 1999"
We in Serbia have a sneaky suspicion that you would not be placing this type of article under any circumstances in one of the papers you work for. It is understandable.
So much for the freedom of speech.
Here on the streets of Belgrade we are directly witnessing the NWO occupation.
Cheers
As a Serb living in the U.K, I am always left frustrated and angered by the medias stance on Serbia, especially the one sided stories towards the Bosnian War, Kosovo, Operation Storm (which i was a victim of as a child) but you come as a sort breath of fresh air, a kind of relief to know that non-Serbs in the media can also use their own brain and not follow the crowd. God bless you.
Check Julia's Gorin site regarding Biden and Serbophobia : http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/?p=1778
I do not know about an original URL, but Biden said these comments on CNN on 01.08.1993., 2 days later he had very similair speech in US SENATE, and on 15.o5.1993. he had a rant against "Serbian fascist" on National public radio Washington...Here is the link for Croatian news site, where they have listed his "outbursts": http://www.index.hr/vijesti/clanak/biden-dolazi-u-srbiju-a-tabloidi-podsjecaju-na-izjavu-srbi-su-nepismeni-degenerici-i-koljaci/434344.aspx
On B92, I saw some pictures of Biden at Djindic's memorial. With that in mind, it might be a good time to repost or link "quisling of beograd" on your blog.
Is Biden a racist? That depends on whether you confine racist behaviour to acts and words, and exclude thoughts and desires… I wouldn’t call him racist. One thing for sure, he is anti-Serb.
Note: I agree with your views on the war against Yugoslavia and lots of other things too, and I'm certainly not defending Joe Biden. But I just have a couple of comments.
"If Biden had made his comments about having a 'Japanese-German style occupation' of Israel, or indeed any other country, he would not only not be US Vice-President, he’d probably be in prison for race-hate crimes."
I'm pretty sure he's not referring to the German occupation of Yugoslavia, or the German and Japanese occupations of other countires during WW2, but the postwar allied occupation of Germany and the American occupation of Japan.
I don't know much about American (or British) law but my impression was that freedom of speach is pretty strong in the USA (I mean legally, of course often not in practice), and I would assume the first amendment to the US constitution would protect this? I do now that a lot of rightwingers (for instance Ann Coulter, Yaron Brook and countless others) have said and written things that are much, much worse than what Biden was suggesting. It's obvious that the fallout would be different from bashing serbs or muslims or other groups of people living in countries wich they want to turn their war machine on, than from doing the same with Israel or other US allies. But at least occasionally the justice system tries to uphold the standards of the law.
But it is true that the Israel lobby is strong enough there to make sure he would not become vice president.
I also would not be suprised if not some leftists have jokingly suggested (Mostly as a rethorical tool to highlight western hypocrisy) that Israel should be invaded and occupied, perhaps to enforce the UN resolutions regarding the occupied Palestinian territories. I'm not supportive of such "humanitarian interventions" even if the target is Israel (or the USA!), but I doubt you will get imprisoned for suggesting it.
"Serbs are illiterate degenerates, baby killers, butchers and rapists"
Substitute Americans for Serbs and I'm pretty sure there are those who have described Biden's own countrymen that way. I have fortunately not seen anyone going to prison for saying this.
Biden isn't racist but demonises nations and nationalisms that oppose American hegemony and geostrategy and lauds as plucky freedom fighters those whose nationalism works to the USA's favour.
Hence the fulsome support for Agim Ceku and his KLA narcotic smuggling and human sex slave trafficking gangsters in Kosovo who now have put on suits and have learnt think tank and NGO rhetoric.
The tedious comparisons with WW2 i.e the Good War are always invoked by US and British politicians to invoke the idea any war is part of some seamless struggle for freedom and democracy which is why Biden used the tired German-Japanese example.
So did neoconservatives when comparing Iraq with Nazi Germany, the usual misuse of history for propaganda reasons, all the more depressing because at least WW2 was, in the end fought for good reasons from the allied side that co-incided with the preservation of democracy.
But the advancing of democracy was not a necessary part of the reason why either Germany or Japan was defeated nor was the democracy the necessary consequence of the Allied victory.
It was just that the opposing powers in WW2 were just so much worse than the allies whether Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union or Imperial Japan. Had it not been for the Soviet Union ,WW2 would not have been won.
The problem with superimposing the allied narrative of ww2 on Serbia is that its ahistorical, propagandistic, and, in the case of Serb nationalists, must seem deeply wrong as Serbia was always on the allied side until the 1990s.
This is FUCKING HILARIOUS. You were exposed by Kammo for copying down false quotes from the internet and not checking them. And now you've been exposed for doing it again!!!!!!
What a fuckwit you are. No wonder serious papers run a million miles from you!!! Up on Wikipedia it goes, Citylightsgirl!
Yes, I think wotsisname at E.Europe Watch is right - Biden is just a slimy opportunist on this, but he's also an Israeli agent whether or not that has any bearing on his attitude to Serbia.
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@Norwegian Socialist, sure, but how often can you hear MPs saying "Americans are illiterate degenerates, baby killers, butchers and rapists"? :)
Neil - I applaud you for taking down the 'baby killers' quote, which I can only find attributed through hearsay.
Although I disagree with a lot of what you wrote (Norwegian Socialist has a lot of good and intelligent comments) I think it shows a journalistic integrity with which your detractors sometimes don't credit you.
The current consensus on the right hand side of the aisle in the US is that Vice-President Biden is a dundering buffoon, and as evidence I offer Biden's advice on not using public transportation during the recent swine flu outbreak, and Biden's blabbing about the hideaway in the Naval Observatory. And that was just in the past month. There are plenty more instances besides those.
That having been said, this post you've written is the first post of substance you've written about Joe Biden. I grasp that you considered Bush's warmongering against Iraq to be worse than Biden's warmongering against Serbia.
I know you have been disappointed in President Obama. Many on the left side of the aisle in the US are also disappointed.
Serbs aren't a race, just lost Russians so it isn't "racism".
Don't expect to find source, serbs have a long history of just making stuff up. Like their 1389 'battle' (where they surrendered, gave their women to the Turks and then helped their inlaws settle in the Balkans)
thanks for all the comments, and the various links.
'anonymous' at 9.50pm- i've decided to publish your comments because I think they reveal far more about you than they do about me. threats to edit my wikipedia page, eh? what a sad individual you are.
I might also add that another reason why I published 9.50 anonymous' comments is that I want to share them with readers. These are the sort of threatening emails from 'anonymous' about editing my wikipedia page that I receive on a regular basis.
The Anonymous is obviously not so anonymous. Albanian propaganda is very transparent and cheap. And so are their "history lectures". REgarding the Batlle of Kosovo in 1389 and "Serbians surrendering and giving their women to Turks" i have a short reply: According to the first reports that went to Europe from the batllefield of Kosovo, particulary those that Vatican received through their messengers Serbs won that battle. Later it was considered that no clear winner came out or that Turks won it. What is the real truth we may never know but we certaily know this: Turks lost two of their Sultans in this battle (first Sultan Murat got killed and in a same day his succsesor, the eldest son died too). It was the middle son Bayazit who finished the battle as Turkish Sultan, but how did he finish it? After that battle Turks did not come back for another 80 years. Never ever in Turkish (and Ottoman) history did it happen that Turks loose two of their emperors (Sultans) in one single battle. That battle would be more than proud record for ANY NATION, not just Serbs. On the other hand no other nation in Balkans, especially Albanians, have such proud history as Serbs. Serbs always fought their occupiers throughout their history nomatter how big or powerfull they were: Ottomans, Austro-Hungarian Empire, Germans....Others just bended to the power...accepting peacefully their enslavement often for centuries.And lets not even talk about Serbia being the only Empire in Balkans ever. Jealusy is hiting hard those who hardly have any history to talk about
Neil it is right that you acknowledge the problems with these quotes but also think you should put Andrej's information up as an update too. Having done a google translation of his link it does seem (within the limitations of automated translation back into English) that this is a good source which cannot be accused of being pro-Serb
That CNN do not make this interview available is itself an interesting datum about the extent of censorship & good reason for accepting it says precisely what we are told it says. Very Orwellian.
I had a similar problem when I was unable to substantiate our ally Tudjman having justified Hitler on the "need to be rid of the Jews" & acknowledged this - & then when a friend found the original was able to say so.
Precisely Neil...Croats would never put on display such information, which goes to the advantage of Serbs, unless its 120% true
Say it were 1979 and the Czechoslovak government under Gustav Husak welcomed the Soviet President Brezhnev to Prague with a WTO military parade, the western press would be full of diatribes about Czechoslovakia being a Soviet satelite state and a banana republic with a puppet regime falling over themselfs to please the master. But as we know the terms traiters, lackys and war criminals are labels only the west has the right to use against others, after all those who want to please the great, righteous, perfect regime could only be peace loving, freedom loving democrats, read that in the Nazi archives.
Been reading the medialens message board and saw your post and link about Biden and his current trip the the Balkans.
I read today that he's been honoured in Kosovo.
http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/6309556/US-Vice-President-receives-Kosovar-honour
I wonder which 'Kammo' the charming and very polite 9.50 anonymous is referring to, Neil?
It surely can't be the Times leader writer Oliver Kamm, mentioned in Tuesday's Londoners Diary in the Evening Standard?
http://londonersdiary.standard.co.uk/2009/05/theres-another-bus-at-the-lion-dor-.html
To use 9.50 anonymous' very own words: This is FUCKING HILARIOUS!
WHAT A FUCKWIT!
Seeing that he's such a keen wikipedia editor, will 9.50 anonymous be adding a reference to this unfortunate (and hilarious) episode on 'Kammo's' wikipedia page? The world is watching.
'anonymous' at 9.50pm- i've decided to publish your comments because I think they reveal far more about you than they do about me.'
Very true. I do not always agree with you (especially your description of Iraqi interpreters as 'quislings') but this man is very creepy. especially as you often publish critical comments and have reasoned debates with your critics.
Given that he uses offensive language can't you take some kind of legal action? It might not come to anything, but it would be very interesting to know who Oliver Kamm's elusive no. 1 fan is. I wouldn't be surprised if he is a balding man with a beard, whose initials are OK and who hilariously thinks of himself as a music critic:
http://unspeak.net/the-dominance-of-western-music/
What are gossips in Serbia:
1. I don't know if you read somewhere that EU told us that we are not going to have visas liberation if we continue to give Serbian passports to Serbs who live in BiH (Republika Srpska) and to all citizens in Kosovo. Why? Because huge Albanian population started to apply for Serbian passports. So they have independent country, but still when they are asking for Serbian passports they are claiming that they are citizens of Serbia.
2. People in Republika Srpska are aware that they are not going to be allowed to become part of Serbia. So they now have idea to become part of Russian Federation and to allow Russia to have military base there. I know it sounds like SF story, but who knows...
Here in Serbia we believe that Biden came here because of that two reasons. To stop Albanians requests for Serbian passports, probably by promising them same future in resent time. But we all know that EU don't want Albania and Kosovo in Europe. (Who could blame them). And for sure (the last one is confirmed by our Government) to give orders to Tadic how to pressure Dodik against independence of R.Srpska.
Hardly worth legal action. Such idiots are occasionally even a useful sounding board. I have a regular Mous who has admitted to being the guy who drafted the charges that got me expelled from the LibDems for being opposed to genocide.
Neil: you may have already seen it but anonymous @ 9.50 did go on to your wikipedia page to make an edit after sending through his comment.
'Philip Cross' removed his material but it looks to me like a bit of a 'good cop/bad cop' routine. 'Cross' seems very keen that links to blog posts about you by Oliver Kamm are kept up there.
It does look like you make a habit of copying down false quotes without checking them. Don't you think this is a valid criticism that people should know about? You can always provide sources if your quotes are right.
annoymous@9.50pm and 2.37pm
You'd like me to respond to allegations made against me by an embittered blogger who has spent three and a half years attacking me and trying to destroy- (to use his own word) my career as a journalist because I committed the ‘crime’ of critically reviewing his book for the Daily Telegraph.
Yeh, right....
In the last three and a half years the blogger in question has made numerous false allegations about me - he’s attacked me (and also my wife) over 100 times on his blog and elsewhere on the Internet.
His obsession is matched only by yours (I wonder if by any chance, you are related?): you have sent around 30 emails to me in the last week or so, demanding that I answer the said bloggers latest allegations.
May I draw your attention to the Protection from Harassment Act- 1997.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1997/ukpga_19970040_en_1
I consider your frequent mails to me- demanding that I respond to allegations made by the said blogger- to constitute harassment.
And unless they cease with immediate effect then I’ll be seeking redress under that act against you. And when I talk of harassment, I also refer to your charming habit of googling my articles and posting defamatory comments about me on other websites which link approvingly to my work. On left-wing sites you try to make out I'm a far-right BNP supporter, on right-of-centre sites that I'm a Stalinist.
You are an obsessive and extremely malicious cyber-stalking crank, and it's only a question of when, and not if, you'll end up in a police cell.
While I strongly believe in free debate I have decided that I do not have an obligation to publish comments which are purely offensive not addressing the issue with any sort of fact or indeed involve swearing. Also somebody hiding behind anonymity deserves less respect than one who debates, ir even insults, openly.
Others are more restrictive for example a Mt Oliver Kamm certainly believes in censoring anybody who points out non-factual statements in his racist stuff http://oliverkamm.typepad.com/blog/2008/07/about-karadzic.html & most LibDem blogs feel the same way about censrship of facts.
It's 2 months since you said you would post these quotes back up when you got confirmation of them and you haven't done it. Faking quotes is a serious matter and you've done it 3 times. Does the Express know this?
anonymous: accusing people of faking quotes is a very serious matter too. As is the practice of sending anonymous/pseudonymous emails to journalist's employers to try and get them the sack.
As you're about to find out.
For the "anoyingnymous" THIS IS THE LINK FOR THE QUOTES: http://www.index.hr/vijesti/clanak/biden-dolazi-u-srbiju-a-tabloidi-podsjecaju-na-izjavu-srbi-su-nepismeni-degenerici-i-koljaci/434344.aspx
Thanks Andrej. For the background to 'anonymous':
http://neilclark66.blogspot.com/2007/05/poisonous-vendatta-of-oliver-kamm.html
@2:59 AM Anonymus.
"Serbs aren't a race, just lost Russians so it isn't "racism".
This is pretty much like saying:
Jews aren't a race, just lost Arabs, so it isn't "racism".
You're not only malicious, but you're also showing your ignorance.
Biden is just another homophobic opportunist.
Hey,
I saw above about the Julia Gorin Blog, to be honest I have spent a lot of time on the "kosovo" status subject, and have been researching for the past 10 years to eventually write a book about "the honest truth" of that situation whether either side likes it or not. The Julia Gorin blog in my own opinion is not very scholarly, it is very propagandist, in my own opinion being good at discussing a topic means not completely being anti-any community. There are opinions and then there are areas where even I question when is free speech becoming a push in the wrong direction and not to mention really screws around with our youth. I mean consider the RTLM radio of Rwanda, freedom of speech forced the international community to ignore General Dallaire's proposal of shutting it down, and people religiously listened to it, committing acts of genocide from it. Julia is no where near RTLM (she is MUCH MUCH MORE MODERATE, BUT NOT NECESSARILY UN BIAS), but hate messages, will never solve the problem of the Balkans. So my point is, Julia Gorin blog awful awful citation for your blog. If you want to find out more on Biden, the republican blogs are full of it, and there are better ones than Gorin's.
The problem with "hate meaasges" always being bad is who gets to define them. Shouls the BBC all be arrested as part of a joint criminal conspiracy for saying the Serbs were committing atrocities in Kosovo? This was clearly a lie.
Personally I am very leery about any suppression of free speech at all & think charging Rwanda radio hournalists with war crimes purely on the basis of what they said, to have been wrong.
However if we are to have such limits they should, under all circumstances, alpply only to statements which are lies. Saying that al Quaeda was responsible for 9:11, while obviously inspiring hate of the orfanisation, is clearly true and thus should, under no circumstances be criminal. Saying that Milsoevic was responsible for atrocities, let alone genocide, is clearly a lie and if Katie is being objective (though in my opinion wrong) she must have already called for everybody who did so to be arrested.
Of course even if only murderous actions, rather than murderous words, were punished almost evetybody who was an MP during the Yugoslav wars & who, by voting for it, has proven themselves obscene, sunbhiman, chold raping, genocidal, organlegging, Nazis ehould, after a short but fair trial, be hanging from the lamposits. Katie, being honest, will also have siad that - we only disagree on whether the subhuman filth on the BBC, who lied should all, automatically, join them.
Everything is a Race now so everything is Racist, even my TV gets Racist when i turn it off... Goddamnit!
Seriously though, that was a pretty weak statement.. you're sounding like Glenn Bleck right now.
I also love how Hate/Anger gets instantly connected with Phobia.. nice. Politicians say alot of crazy shit, do alot of crazy shit.. but just a little piece of that crazy shit tends to make the front page.
If Biden is not a racist- nobody is and nobody has a chance of ever being one
Ur very brave arnt u, to sign ur name anonymous when u say such hateful things about the Serbians.
U are obviously very stupid and i would never even try to explain what the battle fought on the fields of Kosovo means to the people of Serbia to an inbred, ignorant, hateful little 'anonymous' such as urself.
And no, im not Serbian, i just do my research. U might like to try it.
You are a piece of shit!
Serbia are pigs like England!
Beautiful of USA to Support Bosnia!
You are a piece of shit!
Serbia are pigs like England!
Beautiful of USA to Support Bosnia!
You are a piece of shit!
Serbia are pigs like England!
Beautiful of USA to Support Bosnia!
A fine example of the intellectual standard common among those who support totalitarian fascism & whatever lies our government are telling. I have experienced the same from global warming alarmists.
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